83: Another One Bites the Rust

After an unexpected break due to inclement weather, we're shaking off the rust with... more rust, as Llewyn recounts the history of the iconic rust monster.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You the adventurer. Yes, you. Do you desire knowledge of immense worlds and arcane power? A codex of untold stories and lore? Or perhaps simply easy listening for your daily commute. Then feast your eyes, or more accurately, yes, upon Dungeon Pedia. Shit's about to get nerdy in here.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

An exploration into the lore of Dungeons and Dragons. We're your host, Louis Markel.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Taylor Stanfield.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

And I'm Travis Peasley.

SPEAKER_03 0:48

And we hate blizzards.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Jesus fucking Christ. Christ. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

So as many of you know, we live in Oklahoma.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Um, we did not get as hard hit as our neighbors down south in Texas. Uh, but we did still get, oh, two feet of snow. Yeah, we we got hit. Which we are the ungodly love child between the South and the Midwest. And so it just it it we don't handle it well. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

We are not equipped for this kind of weather.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

We handle it better than Texas, and I don't even mean that in a mean way, like just straight up like we're a bit more used to it. A bit, yeah. But we're not a we're like Nebraska, you got leagues on us.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yeah, and like everywhere else is just laughing at us because like well, Oakland is often with on we beyond parity, excuse me, the kind of place where it's like we get like an inch, like predicted, and it's like, okay, shut everything down. But like this was literally like okay, we can't go anywhere. Yeah. Like I literally like cannot.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

I like could not leave my house, could not leave my driveway.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Could not leave my bed for a couple days because my house would literally not stay warm enough for me to sit in my living room. So I piled all the animals up in my bedroom and cranked the heat up and uh, you know, barely left my bed for three days.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Oh yeah. Electric bills are gonna suck.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Try not to think about it. Um our hearts, of course, go out to those in Texas who are suffering much worse conditions.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Yeah, and people who were actually like we had I had we had like a brownout for like an hour. So, you know, people who actually like lost power, lost water, and what have you. And we're just complaining. Yeah, yeah, about you know, about being annoyed and cold.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Honestly, the worst part for us was that no none of us could go over to uh record. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Yeah. And that put us another week behind.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

As it seems to uh keep happening, but um winter's almost over. Winter's almost over, and uh, I think I have the perfect topic for if we're uh feeling a little rusty. Um we're gonna be talking about rust monsters.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

I had a feeling like I was already mad at you. Why? Didn't even know why, but because I could feel the pun. Like you hadn't even finished it, but I could feel it.

SPEAKER_04 3:20

So uh Rust monsters, huh?

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Yeah, Rust Monsters.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Um let's work out the rust.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Go get the go get the coke. We'll just pour it all over ourselves. Oh my god. That that takes off rust, right? Uh yes, can it? Yeah. On certain metals, I believe. I know that it it dissolves blood. That's not mm-hmm. I hey lewin. Yeah. Nope. Well, they do that. Like it was a like a crime scene, like blood on asphalt, they pour coke on it. Hey Lewin. To clean it up.

SPEAKER_04 3:54

I would not have ever known that.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Well, here you go. Fun fact. I watched a lot of true crime. Okay. I now have more information.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Yeah, that that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Listen, no, actually, it probably makes more sense that I've murdered somebody.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

I have I've never killed anybody. So you you everybody may or may not know uh or or regard Rust Monsters as being a pretty iconic DD monster. I feel like you don't I almost feel like they're they're kind of iconic, but almost a little less ubiquitous than some other ones, if that makes sense. No, yeah. Like I feel like everyone everyone knows what a Rust monster is, and they're like, oh yeah. Well I'll say everyone knows what Rust Rust monster is, but you know, I feel like they're almost less ubiquitous, and I think that might be in part because uh what they do can present a pretty unique challenge, which we'll talk about later. But uh I may have mentioned them in the Albear episode. Uh the real-world origins of the Rust Monster are actually pretty interesting, as opposed to being based on like a mythology or you know, just a regular animal. Um so uh Tony D. I'm sorry, um, who is a writer for Planescape, um, recounts in a post on his blog, and this post was from 2013, entitled Albears, Rust, Monsters, and Beulettes, Oh My.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Which I mean, yeah. Um, and he recounts in this it within this was from Tony DiGelluzzi's blog, but it's a quote from Tim Kask, who was a playtester for D D, as well as the first editor of Dragon Magazine. Nice. Which is yeah. Um, but in this quote from this article uh or blog post rather, uh Tim was recounting how he and Gary Gygax at one point had spent an afternoon um pouring over this package of figures that uh Gary Gygax had bought from a from a dime store. The uh the quote unquote prehistoric animals that was made in Hong Kong.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

That are definitely not prehistoric animals.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

So we're like, what is that? So he uh recounts spending an afternoon with Gary Gygax kind of pouring over of these varieties of figures um and coming up with monsters, including the Albear Bulette and Rust Monster. Um, and also in my in my notes for for Taylor and Travis's as well as anybody uh else's viewing pleasure, I've disclosed an image of the original figure, which I hadn't seen actually when I wrote the Albear episode, but uh Tony Di Tarlesi actually has a whole bunch of pictures of these various um quote unquote prehistoric animals on his blog post. So, like go look at them if you want to see what they look like. Um I had never seen it before either. I know that it's good. It looks about as um low-quality, shitty plastic toy as you can imagine. And I love it.

SPEAKER_04 7:08

It really does.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

It's pretty good. So um that's just a little bit kind of about the origins of the Rust Monster. It literally was uh Gary Gygax and like a um like friend co-worker of his um just staring at just staring at some shitty little plastic toys that he bought from a dime store and being like, well, what if this was a monster that did this or whatever? I like it though. I know, I kinda I kind of love it. It's fun. Um pretty good way to create monsters for sure.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Like look at going back and looking at your old uh old art and being like, oh god, well, gotta turn this into a monster.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Oh Jesus. Oh, too real. So um the first initial appearance of the Rust Monster was in Greyhawk, which was released in 1975, and also is the origin, I think, of a lot of things. A lot of monsters in Dungeons and Dragons. Um, and in Greyhawk, the Rust Monster had uh five hit dice and an AC of two, which remember this is Thacko, so that's actually pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Because the lower it is, the better it is.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Yay. Um Thacko.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

I thought the negative numbers meant they were better.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

I mean, negative numbers are even better, but two is still pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

Okay, okay. Right. Yeah sorry, thacko's wacko.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

So, as has been the tradition for a lot of these um Greyhawk entries, I'm going to read you the entirety of its descriptive paragraph. Oh boy. Uh quote These seemingly uh these seeming inoffensive creatures are the bane of metal with a ferrous content, for as their name implies, they have the effect of rust upon such substances, and this happens nearly instantaneously. Any hits by or upon a rust monster, cause even magical weapons to rust and fall to flakes. Armor is affected in a like manner. The creature is very fast, being attracted to the smell of the iron-based metals, and when alone, it will devour the rust it has caused. End quote. So that's where their AC comes from, is the fact that they're very quick moving. Right makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

But also, these things, even with like only having five hit dice, are such a pain in the ass.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah, no, that that's the consensus.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Like, yeah, you can probably kill it fairly easily, but your weapon's gonna be shit after.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

Okay, so I can't remember when you destroyed my armor in our Pathfinder Finder campaign. That wasn't a Rust monster, that was just an attack, right? Right, it was inspired by the Rust monster.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

It was not a Rust monster, but it was a rusting like touch attack, basically. So it did pretty much the same thing that a Rust Monster would do. Thereby fucking up your armor.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Also, uh worth noting that like besides that and the little like heading where I got its hit dice and AC and what have you from, that's like it. There's no picture, no description of what it looks like. It's just a the closest to these seeming inoffensive creatures, which I think is funny, because the word inoffensive is used to describe them a lot, and I don't know why I think that's so funny. But it is.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

Yeah. I mean, they are definitely inoffensive looking. I mean, they're kind of cute.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Like uh they're actually really cute. I would like to see that creature in a zoo or perhaps an aquarium.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

It would have to be in a specialized kind of uh enclosure in the zoo.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

Like Magneto's cell.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Yeah, it's just like plastic. So next we're gonna move into um Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. So additional details along with an illustration that it's sh the toy is shown beside in images on Tony DiCalisi's blog, is from the monster manual, which was released in 1977. Um, they are neutral in alignment, which literally never changes. I mean, that makes sense. They're they're uh animals and they have an animal intelligence, which is to say not very. Um, I think as in fifth edition, their intelligence is a two. Oh they're not very smart. Poor guys. I know. What is it with me and just covering all the dumb, neutrally aligned monsters? I think dumb, neutrally aligned monsters and dragons. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

It's because if Lewin, if you were in the world of Dungeons and Dragons, he would be an anthropologist. Or not an anthropologist, a zoologist.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

I mean, I might I don't know. There's a lot of I feel like there's a lot of Renaissance people in Dungeons and Dragons universe, so I'd probably be an anthropologist too. You're you you're not wrong. And you know, like a actu well, I was gonna say actual witch. Anyway.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Anthropology.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

So um they are described physically uh as having armored armadillo-like bodies with two long antenna, antennae extending from their heads, and a long tail that ends in this kind of like hammer pad. No, it's like a paddle shape kind of. Ah yeah. Like um, like a hammerhead shark head. Which is actually where I thought of the hammer. Oh, okay, no, I see what you mean.

SPEAKER_04 12:09

They're more like less wide rather than a hammerheads, probably.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

Yeah, yeah. It's like it's kind of like it's it's like a flat paddle shape. Yeah. Interesting. So they can pick out the smell of all manner of metals, and while they will eat any type of metal, they prefer ferrous-based, which is to say made of iron. Right. Uh metals such as steel or iron, as well as ferrous alloys such as adamantine or mithril. Um, they corrode metal by touching it with their antennae in a roll-to-hit attack, upon which the metal immediately corrodes and falls apart. Immediately. Um there's a lot of there's a lot of math and slight variations in later editions about how quickly it can take or how much of an area it affects over a certain amount of time, but it's always very quick. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:57

Yeah, like the effect happens pretty rapidly.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yes, very much so. Um, so magical items gain a saving throw against this effect, and each plus of a magical item grants a plus 10% chance to not be affected. Like a uh plus two magical shield will have a plus 20% chance to not be affected.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Essentially. So the better it is, the harder it is for the Rust Monster to corrode it. Um, weapons that strike the Rust monster will corrode in this way as well. So you can't even hit it.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

So uh you're either gonna like phrasing. You're either going to beat it with your fists, or it would be better off to just stand back and shoot it with a bow or crossbow and just lose those arrows.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Yeah, I mean and also like blunt force trauma of you know, clubs and what have you. Yeah, have a non-metal ones. Well, wooden wooden clubs, not metal ones. Shilleley. Shilleley. Shilleley, for example. Yes. Or, you know. Headbutt it. Headbutt it.

SPEAKER_04 13:55

I want to see someone headbutt a Rust Monster.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

No, no, I'm just thinking about Dahlia's sword. Oh. No. Oh no, I'd be useless.

unknown 14:02

Fuck.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Shilleley. That should just be all Shilleley and Eldridge Blast. Um yeah, crying in the corner. Rupe. Um, so a suggested strategy is that if the need to flee arises, a party can throw an item such as a mace or a handful of caltrops behind them as the rust monster will stop to consume the metal, giving the party time to flee.

SPEAKER_04 14:28

So smart. That's a pretty damn smart.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Also, that's a that's the much nicer version of tripping your friend when you're being chased by a bear. Or an owlbear, perhaps. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

Instead of tripping your friend, you're just sacrificing an item in this case.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah, they're very they're very easily.

SPEAKER_04 14:49

However, if your friend has slighted you, or you know that they'll come back.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

It's either you know they'll be fine, or you know they definitely won't be fine.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

And you're okay with it.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Either way. Just go for it.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

That's so No, that's not the takeaway.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

That's what Dahlia would do on the way out of that encounter where she was useless. Um But the point is they're very easily distracted by food, essentially. Yeah. Which is a mood and a same joke, Travis. Big same. Oh boy. Huge same. So um we're uh getting this one in, getting this one in early today. Oh boy. We have a very special The Ecology of the Rust Monsters.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Yes, ecology.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

By one Ed Greenwood. Ooh. Which was published in Dragon Magazine issue number 88 in 1984. So we have an ecology article by Ed Greenwood.

SPEAKER_04 15:43

Oh my gosh. Ed Greenwood, contact us. Ed Greenwood, please don't. Please don't.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Ed Greenwood, I would be too embarrassed. Right. I would literally like spontaneously combust.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Fine, contact me.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

That's fine. Well, but then you would tell me, and I would still spontaneously combust. That's fine. And you're not allowed to have secret correspondence with anybody. Well, in this sphere.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

I don't remember signing this contract.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Listen, read it next time. So um in the The Psychology article, Rust monsters are described as non-aggressive, but curious and fearless and completely single-minded whenever they smell a meal. Mood. Repeating the joke joke repeating. I'm sorry, guys, it's all I got. Um, they can smell any ferrous mineral that comes within I think nine feet of them, and any non-ferrous uh mineral that comes within two feet. The reason I say I think is because the specific inch signal is used, like the double apostrophe, like quotation marks.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Um, but the specific phrasing that Ed Greenwood uh uses in reference is that it's the same distance that a man needs to be to see the details of another man's face, which I think is not nine inches unless he has very bad eyesight. It's more like nine feet. So unless he unless that person is me, because I have bad eyesight.

SPEAKER_04 17:00

I need to I think I would agree with you on that one.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yeah, like I I feel like if I'm nine, I mean, I can see all the details on Travis's face, and I'm definitely more than nine inches away from him.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Yeah. But also, I think that the the the marker that in real life denotes inches is used for something different in Advanced Dungeons and Dragons. But if that's to be a square, which I think it might denote, that would mean 45 feet away, which is not the distance where you can make out the details in another person's face.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Well, what's that that phrase from the American Revolution? Like, don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes. Yeah. You you can probably make out the whites of people's eyes from 45 feet away.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

I mean, I'm a bad, I'm a bad person to posit that example to because I am very near some.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

I can probably Okay, yeah, but you have 2020 vision. I I'm saying that this is written from the perspective of someone who maybe doesn't like naturally have 2020 vision but is wearing his glasses. Tradus.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Ed Greenwood, tweet us and tell us what kind of vision you have. Do you have 2020 vision? Or uh email us. Or, you know, whatever, honestly. Send a carrier pigeon. Carrier pigeon. So um I'm saying nine feet because that's what makes the most sense to me, but I might also be stupid.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

That was a very long like sidetrack for nine feet. I just I'm blaming that on all of us, not just No, yeah, yeah, no, it's it's a group effort.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Listen, I'm just making sure that people know that I might not know what I'm talking about, okay? I don't want to be that important. I don't want to sound confident when I know I might be wrong, so I'm just putting it out there. So um oh it so also whatever um metal is outside of their smell range, however large it is, um also it doesn't make sense to me that they could only smell something that's two inches in front of their face, even if it's like non-ferrous. That doesn't make as much sense to me. Anyway, if any metal is outside of their smell range, even if it is very visible, like a paladin standing there in full plate armor, just shining, just shining to the gods, is outside of the Rust Monster smell range, it goes completely undetected. So it is they they track it by scent and not sight.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Um, so their movement is described persistently, I note, as galumphing.

SPEAKER_04 19:21

Galumping.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

So they move very quickly in a clumsy side-to-side waddling motion.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Oh my god. So cute. They're just armadillos.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

And okay, I'm sorry to derail. I feel like it would have to be for nine to four nine or forty-five feet if they only detect via smell. Because otherwise they would just starve to death. Because if they can only smell two inches in front of their face.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

I mean, I've made it this far without starving to death, and I can basically only smell two inches in front of my face.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Okay, but you also don't only rely on scent to live.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Fair. I also don't eat iron that often. Um anyways, galumphing. Glumping. That's so cute. You know what else is cute? Um, they make chittering sounds similar to mice. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 20:05

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

They're so cute. So these little things.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Basically, what I'm what I learned is Ed Greenwood doesn't want me to kill these things.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yes. Yes. Um, also, speaking of uh speaking of little, their size, they average about five feet. And this is across editions. Um, it's not particularly, you know, the the huge still. They they average about five feet long from tail to tip and about anywhere from two to three, three and a half feet like high. That's actually much bigger than I was picturing. So they're they're essentially the size of like a large I've seen like large dog, small pony, basically.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Large dog, small pony.

SPEAKER_04 20:44

Hey, I mean There are some dogs that are the size of a small pony.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

There are some ponies that are the size of dogs. Yeah, and there are some ponies that are the size of a dog.

unknown 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

And so the the function particularly of their tail is also spelled out in this ecology article, which is to say that it's it's kind of like a low to the ground, like the it has the paddle shape on the back, but it's like an ankylosaurus kind of speck. So they can use it to like sweep the leg, you know. Okay. So they're just like, which then makes them perfect prey for the antenna.

SPEAKER_04 21:17

Right. So they would just like turn and just swipe you down and basically. Then rust all your stuff.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

But not you.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

But not you. Um, so the unique ability of the rust monster is explained in detail in this, as is often the case with ecology articles. The uh unique ability of the Rust Monster comes from a bacteria that they have developed a symbiotic relationship with. Um and it's noted that no other creature has been observed to be able to successfully host this bacteria, nor has the bacteria been able to be reproduced by any alchemists. So yeah. So they they gain their ability from a symbiotic relationship with a very specific form of. Bacteria.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

That's really cool. And you know, I always love when we add science to fantasy. I know. There's some there's some good science in here. Fuck your science fiction. I like my science fantasy.

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Yeah. So the bacteria lives within the tongue, stomach, and bloodstream of the rust monster. Oh, Taylor and Travis sons of recognition. I also think I literally made that sound out loud when I read that too. So the bacteria feeds upon iron oxides, aka rust. Yeah. Uh, as well as heat from sunlight absorbed through the creature's body. So it takes both of these things, converts them into energy. Da-da-da.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Which further feeds both the rust monster and the bacteria. Um symbiosis. Yes. So that makes it convenient that a touch from this bacteria causes metal to oxidize. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:49

And then turn into rust and then get eaten. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

So if an attack pierces the creature's shell, their blood causes the same effect. But if an attack bounces harmlessly off of it, it does not rust because the bacteria is in the blood. Okay. So which is why, you know. Well, I mean, you could you can you can bleed from blood force trauma, but you know You can. You can you definitely can. Yeah, yeah, you definitely can, but that's why uh, you know, cutting it with the the sword is a bad idea. But if you were to maybe not know what you were dealing with, then you know your sword glances off of it because you just barely missed or something, it will not start to rust. It has to come in contact with blood.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Basically, you can get lucky.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

You can get you can get lucky. You think you're unlucky because you whift your saving or you whift your uh attack roll, but you're actually lucky.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

Which is also, to me, like a fantastic way of explaining the saving for a roll, basically. Yeah. Like for the weapon, because uh, well, you hit it, but you didn't pierce its skin or its shell.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

You hurt it a little bit, but it you didn't pierce it.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Yeah, or you didn't, you know, yeah. Or it like touched it for a second before the blood like flicked off or something. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

I I love whenever there's like a solid explanation behind a saving throw.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Other than this is balanced for game fairness. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, the bacteria is also thought to be the source of their keen sense of smell and is purportedly linked to magnetism and increases with the purity and concentration of the metal. So they they smell with magnets. Well, that what that actually was to say is that if you took a like an ingot of iron and you submerged it in and you submerged it in water, it would mess with their ability to detect it. Okay. For example. Okay. But um, I I don't know how magnets work in real life, so I'm not going to try to apply that in DD, I've got to be honest.

SPEAKER_04 24:47

Yeah, I don't really know how they work either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Neither do scientists. Nobody knows. Um, moreover, the bacteria can also survive after the host is killed for anywhere from six to one hundred and five days. I don't know why Good Lord. And it's and it literally is six to one hundred and five, not, you know, 10 D whatever. Six to one hundred and five. I don't know why the gulf is so large. I don't know what the deal is. Well, I guess the deal is that it survives after the host body is killed by feeding on the residual stores of iron oxide left inside the body until they deplete.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

So I guess it could just be uh depends on when the monster had its last meal.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Yeah, pretty much. How like how large it was, how much stuff it can fit in its stomach.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

So I guess in fiction, the six is the shortest amount of time that uh like has been observed, and 105 is the longest.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Yes, and also worth noting is that this psychology article, even though it does not um feature Drelix and Company, is one of those takes place in Kfabe, kind of, but it's it's essentially just the notes of some, you know, how do you do zoologists wizard fuck off. How do you do wizard fuck off? How do you do wizard fuck off? How do you do zoologists? How do you do wizard McFuck off, you know, um with actual numbers notes in the margins?

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Okay. You know I love that shit.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Yeah. So but it's it's not like a narrative story, but it is like from the notes of Mr. McFuck off. So um, moreover, also if a Rust monster is consumed, thereby the bacteria is consumed as well, because since I had the Rust Monster, um, the bacteria will simply die within the new quote unquote host without harming them and then harmlessly excreted.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

Um because they're not getting all of the iron oxide they need.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Yes. And it, you know, just doesn't I mean it it doesn't attach anywhere else in a new host like it does in the Rust Monster to their antenna and blood and stuff like that. It just kind of sits there until it dies and you shit it out. Um interestingly though, it doesn't hurt you, which I think is interesting.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

I mean, I guess it makes sense because there's nothing for it to like successfully feed off of.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Yeah. Um, and it's also noted that Rust monsters do not eat each other, so it's unknown what would happen to the consumed bacteria if that happened. I would assume it would just reabsorb into the new the other Rust monster's stomach, but apparently they don't eat each other, so that's nice, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

That is actually pretty good. And yeah, like I want to say cannibalism is bad, guys.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Hot takes.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

I want to say surprising, but at the same time, like cannibalism between creatures is not terribly common.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Well, and it's also like they don't eat meat anyway. Like they wouldn't, they it's not like they they are part of a food chain where they kill and eat some other kind of animal. Like they're sheet metal. Yeah. So they would have no desire to eat another rust monster. Yeah. Um, additionally, if the antennae are severed, which one can be severed after five points of damage dedicated to said antenna, kind of like with the flail snail flails. Um, it can theoretically be placed in a bowl with rust and metal and survive in perpetuity. Because it just keeps rusting it and eating it, rusting it and eating it. And it would also, like, obviously rust naturally from being in the water, so it would just keep rusting and eating over and over again. Um, and can also, interestingly, be used as a weapon to rust other objects. So you just take it out of the water, tap something, and it starts to rust. And then you just put it back.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

What the hell?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Yeah, so they can survive somewhat independently of a living rust monster. Um, this bacteria also grants the rust monster an immunity to poison and a resistance to acid.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

Yeah, no, I I got nothing on that. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

Sure. Alright. Yeah. Immunity to poison, sure. Everyone gets it. Give me that. Um, so the single-mindedness of the rust monster when it comes to food makes it so that any attempt to keep it from its meal will not work, up to and including charm or psionic abilities in most cases.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

Okay. So You would have to actually physically like dishes like remove the intent.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Yeah. You would have to either kill it or place some kind of physical barrier it could not overcome. There are some there are some instances where it's like you can technically use dominate monster, but it gets like an extra it gets an extra save if being basically forced to act outside of its nature.

SPEAKER_03 29:28

I'm encouraging to make uh the rest smell like something else.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Aww.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

Hmm. I wonder if that would work.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

I mean, they they track by scent.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

Hmm. Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Interesting. Um it basically that's their their primary derivative, even more than most animals. It's just food. Food, food, food, food, food. Um okay, so you know we had to talk about this. Oh boy. Um, Rust Monsters mate, quote unquote, often following a ritual in which both parties chitter at each other for several minutes. Don't worry, guys, that's all there is about them fucking.

SPEAKER_04 30:11

They're just talking it out, man.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

Hey, you're not that's healthier than a lot of humans.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Exactly. Oh shit. Oh, and it said that the the fact that they that they fuck so often is basically how they're this sort of like because whenever whenever they're not confronted with metal, they're just pretty like chill. They just kind of plod along, hang out, you know. Um, they're not aggressive, they're inoffensive, if you will. Um, so this is kind of how they've been kept from dying out despite being pretty passive most of the time.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Is that they fuck constantly?

SPEAKER_02 30:49

They fuck a lot, yeah. Um so the and this is it was called this in the text. The rusty, which is so cute, is born four to seven months later with the stats of a scaled-down adult. So it's it's got all the same abilities, it's just smaller numbers, and tends to stay rusty. A rusty, I know. And tends to stay with their birthing parent until fully grown, which is about one year later. Um, and it's also noted that the reason that they have these same abilities at birth is that bacteria some of the bacteria is transferred to the young during birth.

SPEAKER_03 31:28

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:29

I would imagine in the same same kind of vein that some diseases can be transferred to a baby. Yeah, or through just like the surface of the vaginal canal. Oh yeah. So I mean, yeah, that makes sense. So, next Rust Monsters appear, um, not in the first volume, unfortunately, but in the monstrous compendium volume two, which was released in 1989. Um, their appearance, both in description and in the illustration, seem to have been changed to make them more insectoid instead of armadillo-like. Okay. Um, which this is the beginning of a shift in that direction. Damn. Um, they are described as being colored in a range of brownish yellow to rusty red, if that's surprising at all to you. Not at all. Nope. Um, and also that they smell of wet oxidizing metal. Also, not at all.

SPEAKER_04 32:22

And a very specific smell, too. Yeah, like I as soon as you said that I could smell it. Like, I know that smell all too well. Yeah. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Um, so they can smell. Okay, also, this is why I was questi another reason why I was questioning the whole nine-foot thing earlier. Um, they can smell metal up to 90 feet away in this text, which is part of the reason I was questioning that. Whether or not this has been up from prior stats or if I'm just stupid and can't read is up for debate. Um they also might both be true, because I am stupid and cannot read. And Rust Monsters have no grand designs other than gorging themselves on any metal that comes within their smell range of, let me remind you again, 90 feet, which is quite a ways away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

That is a pretty good smelling range.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yes. Um, they dwell in dark underground places and they comb through large areas to find scraps of metal. Spress press. Yep. Yeah. Um, and while they will eat raw ore, they prefer metal that has been smelted and shaped. And the comparison made was that basically, you know, humans could drink swamp water, but they would probably prefer filtered spring water. You know? Which I almost feel like is fair. Not necessarily the most fair comparison because swamp water has things in it, like tapeworms.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

But we can still drink it. Ooh, ooh, ooh.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Un uh un uh rock worms. Well, yeah, I was gonna say that uh ore that hasn't been refined and uh everything is uh got worms in it. Well, it's got stuff in it, like other types of minerals and different types of rocks. Worms! Worms! Yes, also worms. And being harassed about worms.

SPEAKER_04 34:11

Rockworms specifically. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

Okay. Oh. Yeah, you know, you know what, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

Yeah, that that actually, you know what, I was I was just thinking, yeah, okay, whatever, until you uh made the comparison to things being to tapeworms. Yeah, tapeworms.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Uh listen. I'm just primed and ready to think about tapeworms at any moment of every day, gotta be honest.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

Well, yeah, I mean I fucking love those guys. The process of smelting ore down into something that's actually usable is literally just purifying it of all of its abnormalities that you get from the ground.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Yeah, and all of its other other shit. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, the difference being that Rust monsters basically need um humanoids to purify their food source, whereas, you know, sometimes nature does that for humanoids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Um, so they are again persistently described as inoffensive. Um, having had some encounters with wizards and the like, aka people who are not covered in metal, um, having encounters with wizards that are little more than a cursory sniff.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

That's so cute.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

No. Oh, just imagine like a restaurant coming up behind you like a dog and like bumping, bumping your calf and like sniffing you, and then just like just walking away. I smell nothing. I smell nothing of interest to me. Um, okay, so this is another the whole bacteria thing was a very unexpected turn for me, but this was another one that just took a sharp left turn into the outer planes. Um references to rust monsters also appear in the supplement Planes of Law, which was published in 1995. Oh. Um, they are said to be the larval forms of Rust dragons, which you will not believe how excited I was when I read those words. Oh boy. Man. Um Rust dragons are found on the outer plane of Asheron, which I think is the half A Caron. Acaron. I think that's how that's pronounced, but I could be wrong. Taylor confirm it's it's kind of the half-step plane between lawful neutral and lawful evil, right? The the battlefield. Yes. Yeah. Um, so it's just honestly, this place fucking sucks. Yeah, it's like got the echoes of like constant dread and war and yeah, and the the first layer of Acaron um is composed of essentially a bunch of metal cubes free-floating in space and kind of floating around, bumping into each other. Banging into each other, and you can hear the echoes forever, basically. Yeah, this place fucking sucks. But anyway, Rust monsters live there. Or um Rust dragons live there, pardon me. Um so it said that the Rust monsters in uh Acaron gorged themselves on the strange metals present, because you know, why not? It's weird. Yeah, there's a lot of weird metals there. Um, because there's all the different layers are basically just like strange, different shaped metal structures bumping into each other. Um, and after gorging themselves on these strange metals, the rust monsters there cocoon themselves in a cocoon made of basically like metal thread um and emerged as wormling rust dragons. Um sick. So So Lewin's very happy. Yeah. Um it said that it's unknown whether or not rust monsters are actually native to a Charon or simply ended up there somehow. Um and on we're actually dis disappointingly, I mean maybe not for some people, but um, this is not turning into a secret dragon episode. Um so we're gonna talk about rush dragons briefly. Um rush dragons somewhat resemble most metallic dragons, but obviously have a rusty, patinaed kind of look to them. Hell yeah. And shit. I know, and also have insectoid antenna. Ooh. And wings shaped like that of a butterfly. They're literally they literally look like um, I would say the closest is probably like copper. They look like they literally look like vaguely patina, rusty looking copper dragons with little teeny tiny butterfly wings.

unknown 38:17

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

I know. Um, and they also have teeth jutting from the like an exoskeletal part of their face as opposed to the inside of their mouth.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

So they have kind of like that almost like a my god, you guys need to look at them.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Yeah, look them up. They're fun. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

Just look up a Rust Dragon, specifically for the uh Forgotten Realms uh DD. Um it's they're so cool.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Um, well, and that's what they look like in Plains of Law. They look a little different later on.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Yeah, that's um that's why you still know which one because it has butterfly wings.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

Oh my god, it has teeny tiny butterfly wings.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

That's so fucking cool though.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

Um and rust dragons were described basically in it in my interpretation as being a psychological middle ground between Rust Monster and Dragon. Um so they were intelligent, like dragons, but not aggressive, like Rust Monsters, and more concerned with just fucking eating, just feeding on like rusting and feeding on metal. Like Rust Monsters. Like Rust Monsters. And it was described that many did not keep a horde, or if they did, it was a very small one, mostly comprised of gemstones that they found in their quest for more food.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

I love these guys so much.

SPEAKER_04 39:29

It just let, oh, that's pretty. I mean, it's most trackets do though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yeah. So the Rust Monster appears in the 3.0 monster manual, which was published in 2000, in an honestly very pared-down entry, uh, in my opinion. Um it still corrodes metal in a very similar way, now with a successful touch attack or anything that strikes the creature, as it used to be. And magic items now get a DC20 reflex save instead of a base resistance. However, the more I would say like just interesting descriptive bits in additions prior are left out. Um so it kind of is just a metal hungry corrosion machine um with a lot of the nuance taken out. Um that that's a little disappointing. It's very disappointing for me. Um, also disappointing is that the 3.5 monster manual entry, which was released in 2003, is a reprint. Not uncommon, but I was gonna say that's not literally what like 100% nothing different. Anyway, um, so we're going to dip into Draconomicon, the Book of Dragons, which was published in 2003 to be a dragon episode. To revisit the Rust monsters. Um, quote, some prime material sages posit some connection between these fiendish monstrosities and the relatively innocuous Rust monster. But the rational mind correctly sees these claims as the ravings of deranged lunatics. So uh that's why it's not a secret dragon. That's why it's not a secret dragon episode. Oh Damn.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

Oh as the ravings of a deranged lunatic.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Just like attack your own like previous editions. What meta?

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Well, a deranged lunatic named Ed Greenwood, also. Yeah. Jesus, brood. Oh no. So um wait, who wrote that one? Not Ed Greenwood. Not Ed Greenwood, no. I went back and looked, and um I mean I'm sure it wasn't a It wasn't actually an attack on Ed Greenwood. I'm sure it wasn't actually an attack on anyone, but I was just like it felt and it'll it'll also additionally feel funny um because of something we will talk about after we take a break. Oh well then. Hey everybody, thank you so much for checking out our Rust Monster episode. Um, it's taken some interesting twists and turns so far that I personally was not expecting. So hopefully it surprised you as well. It definitely surprised me.

SPEAKER_04 42:17

Yeah, it was definitely a surprise.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

You know what's not a surprise is the beautiful quality sets of dice you can get from metallicdice games.com. Our beloved affiliate partner continues to work with us. Despite our continuity that we keep on, keep saying stupid shit. Um Jesus. Metallic dice games is a wide array of products. I sound like I'm reading from something. Only some of which are made of metal. So all the like resin ones and like the wood, like dice tray, dice towers, and stuff will be totally safe from Rust Monsters.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

And and you know what's really in right now? What? Sharp edges. They got them sharp edges.

SPEAKER_04 42:58

They got them sharp edges.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

Are those made of metal though? No. Oh, good, okay. They're made of resin. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_04 43:04

So they're I don't have any of those yet. Rust monster safe. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Yes. Guaranteed. So once you fill your cart with dice that may or may not be safe for Rust Monsters, uh, you can use code Dungeon Pedia for 10% off your entire order. Oh, and that is at metallicdicegames.com. But again, don't be fooled, not all of them are metallic, so you don't have to worry about any rust monsters getting into your dice horde. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:29

Uh we do still have our Patreon if you would like to support us directly. It's just Dungeonpedia. If you search Patreon, it's there. We got our notes uh available and you can see how much we go off track.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

Yeah. Or yeah, you just you know, Lewin's fun bibliographies.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

That's it. Oh, I haven't finished the bibliography for this one yet.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Um, also, on the topic of supporting us, but also on supporting the Dungeons and Dragons community, uh, we had a collaboration recently with. A new podcast called The Underdorks, which uh their first episode, their debut episode just went live today. It did um at the time of this recording, so it will have been about a week by the time this episode comes out. But um if you wait until the end of the episode and hang stick around, we will have a lot more information then.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Yes, uh please just stick around and just hear the bit of information if you're interested. It's just really great. Really great fun. Um however, if you haven't already, go ahead and follow us on our Twitter and Instagram if you are so inclined to do so. It's both just at Dungeonpedia. We also have our email all nice and uh well, it's not cleaned out totally at the moment, but mostly organized. Mostly organized. You can email us any suggestions for topics to cover at dungeonpedia.podcast at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_03 44:52

And as always, if you'd like to listen on one of the many, many apps out there for podcasts, you can subscribe wherever. It's just an ability of podcast apps. It's really cool. And with that, you can get notifications when new episodes go live. That way you don't have to stick around and wait for us to put on post on Twitter because we do that at the peak hours, roughly.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Roughly.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

And on those apps, sometimes there's like little ratings and reviews that you can leave. And if you would m wouldn't mind just leaving us one, we'd really appreciate it. It just helps us look better in the charts so we can reach out to more people. Yeah. And of course, most of all, and I know each and every one of you do it. I hear you, and I appreciate it so much. But if you can continue to spread the word tell your friends, tell your family, tell your Rust monsters.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Yeah, I'm sure they would love to hear uh No, they they I don't think they're I don't think they're intelligent enough to really the right level of intelligence to enjoy some of the things I say. Oh my god. Like Jesus. Oh, just just me though. You guys are fine.

SPEAKER_04 45:56

Yeah, just uh, you know, continue telling your friends and co-workers and family and whoever you come across really within reason.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

Of course.

SPEAKER_04 46:06

And a uh big ol' thank you to Alexander Nakarata for our theme song Blacksmith that we still use and love and enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 46:14

And with all that, I'm gonna learn some more about Rust Monsters.

SPEAKER_04 46:17

Yes, to the Rust Monsters.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

So after that, um disappointing, just absolutely brutal, like self-burn on their part. Um so the ecology articles are usually our favorite part of any episode that has one. Guess what? This one has two. There are two? There are two of them.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

We have the copy are two of them.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Sorry, you can remove that. I won't. I absolutely will not. We have the ecology of the rust monster in Dragon Magazine issue 346, which was uh published in 2006, written by Nicholas Hudson and Nicholas. Um I looked up how to pronounce this last name. I think it's Polish. Um, it's spelled L-O-C-J-U-E. I think Luk Zhu?

SPEAKER_04 47:17

I think it sounds French when I say it that way, actually.

SPEAKER_03 47:20

Yeah, you sound very French.

SPEAKER_02 47:22

No, it it it looks it looked Polish. So I'm terribly sorry, Nicholas without an H. I I'm I looked it up. I looked up how to pronounce it and then I didn't write the pronunciation of my nose.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

I'm deeply sorry, Nicholas without an H. You you wrote a great article with your with your pal Nicholas with an H. Um so um this actually offers a very, very different divergent take on the Rust monster, but I actually really appreciate it. Um, especially given that it follows, hey, this cool thing, this cool connection with Rust Dragons, Ravings of a Deranged Lunatic. You know? For one, it provides a couple of different potential origins, so more than one even. Um one that's considered to be the most widely accepted is that Rust monsters are native to the metal cubes in the first layer of Acheron. Um, the native tribes of Acaron have holy texts predicting an apocalyptic event wherein Rust monsters find their way into Mechanis. Oh god, that fucking place. Um no. And it rode the Great Gears within, grinding the multiverse to a halt.

SPEAKER_04 48:35

Oh no. Oh yes. That would be so bad.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

Yes, apparently, this is their prediction of how God.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

I can only imagine just Primus just like face fallen. I don't know how to proceed.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

Rip. Um, so records also indicate rusted husks of planet-sized cubes on the fringes of the first layer of a Charon that support great populations of rust monsters, which lends credence to the idea that they could wreak that level of destruction.

SPEAKER_04 49:10

So I mean, yeah, I would not be surprised.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Me neither. Yeah, so that's um that's just another fun little doomsday prophecy for you. Jesus. It's a little rust monster just getting in there and rusting up the gears to keep the universe turning.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

And you you know, mechanism's built like so that it runs efficiently, but you throw a wrench in there, uh specifically a rusty wrench that spreads more rust and eats everything.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

And it's just it's all fucked.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

It's all fucked. They don't know how to proceed, okay? It's very hard. I'm very worried.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

Taylor is currently having a crisis for all of mechanisms.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

I'm just thinking I'm having a crisis thinking about Mechanis again. Sorry. It's okay. I mean, they're the ones who brought it up in this article, so it's not your fault. That's true. Um, so a somewhat different uh potential origin of Rust Monsters um states that they were specifically bred to prevent the rise of technology. Which this is a is a fun take. Um, I say take the the whole Herbert conspiracy theory? No, not not conspiracy theory. It just makes me think of Herbert Firebad, technology bad. Thomas Edison was a witch, you know, people in real life. Ah my favorite kinds of people. Right. So some scholars believe that an unnamed entity who once ruled some demi-planes far from our familiar Great Wheel cosmology, um, decided that technology was bad. Yeah, was was basically bad and incompatible with magic and the present existing planar order. Um, and so this intelligence, whatever it was, um allegedly was a like amalgam of sentient plant life, which I will say is kind of fucking cool. Um created breast monsters from tiny parasites in the hopes of eliminating what is obviously the basis of most technology, which is metal. And this is a this is a quote peeled directly from this because it I felt like it kind of it it fucked. Um quote supposedly a large concern of adventurers once sought to track down the entity responsible for the genesis of Rust monsters. All they found, though, was a land reduced to a crumbled ruin. All vitality sapped from an entire realm collapsed in upon itself.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

God damn.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Oh that does fuck. That does kind of fuck, right? Um so you know. Uh you know, actually, I'm thinking of that one episode with the Borg from Star Trek. Yeah. Where they couldn't assimilate with the with the uh oh okay, I'm sure I I don't necessarily think this was inspired by that, but it just made me think of that. Um also imagine dropping a Rust monster onto one of the Borg ships. That would be funny. So the most um the yeah, obviously, this is another one of those. Again, it wasn't a like story basis, but it was um the the writings of, you know, study kind of thing. Um so this actually takes a very different angle to the rusting ability versus the bacteria that was previously in the last ecology article. Um so the antennae of the rust monster that it uses to, you know, touch things and make them rust are covered in tiny stiff hairs, and they these uh hairs tie to a number of capillary tubes that go into the rust monster's stomach. So basically rust monsters breathe in carbon dioxide and convert it into oxygen and other gases. Um and so these gases are then pumped into these small hairs, um, particularly the ones on their antennae, which upon contact with metal, they basically just they they emit such like force and such a volume of these gases that it basically just causes a very rapid oxidization process that corrodes the metal.

SPEAKER_04 53:11

They must produce a shit ton of those gases for it to have that quickly of an effect.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

A shit ton of oxygen. You don't need a houseplank and a rust monster.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Um so don't have any rust or any technology that you want it to not consume. Precisely. Um, so the based on this um interpretation of how it works, the name Rust Monster is technically a misnomer because they corrode any metal through this way. Um iron is just the only metal that turns into rust. Right. Whereas other metals just corrode into other things that they are less interested in eating. But that explains why rust monsters can corrode anything. They just prefer.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

I okay, it it makes sense, but I prefer symbiosis.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

Yes. I do like the symbiosis. I prefer the symbiosis as well, but I can also like always appreciate anytime they try to make things make sense in hindsight. Yeah, and and and and you know science. Yeah. Um that's how I feel too. Yeah. So the Rust Monster's carapace is also covered in the same hairs as the antenna, which is how it corrodes metal that comes into contact with its body, is with these hairs as well. So only the bony like segments of a Rust Monster's tail are devoid of these hairs. Quote, a trait useful in the creature's mating process. What?

SPEAKER_04 54:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 54:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Uh yeah. So the tail is also what they breathe through. Uh, it has a gill-like structure that takes in oxygen alongside the mouth and nostrils, but I I'm given to understand that most of it comes from the tail. The huck? Yeah. Um because I mean they are pardon me. Did I say oxygen? I meant take in carbon dioxide, excuse me. Right. Um, that's the opposite of humans. Um it's also it also states that males possess larger tails than females, uh, which they use to attract the attention of potential mates.

SPEAKER_04 55:16

Probably by slapping it on the ground.

SPEAKER_03 55:18

That's your pretty standard, like Yeah, big, big, big chunk of mating.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

No, that's not what I was gonna say, but sure. It's a big boy. Um big boy with the big tail.

SPEAKER_03 55:38

Oh. Sounds of a female uh rest monster approving.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

It sounds like a mouse just squeaking. Um, and another part of their mating ritual. Um we're just talking about their mating ritual ritual right now. Okay. Um, why not? Um, so it it's stated that obviously they're they're pretty solitary creatures. This is pretty par for the course um in additions, but it says males are uninterested in reproduction until they come into contact with a rare metal, most often adamantine or mithril, that triggers psychological changes. And it's the the male then harvests bits of the metal and scoops up uncorroded chunks with its tail because the tail does not have these hairs on it, right? And travels until it finds a female to present it to. What the hell? So there's just a whole bunch of um, there's just a whole bunch of male rust monsters, just they got their tails curled up around chunks of adamantine and mithril, just trying to present them to a female. I love it. They drop them off and slapping their tails on the ground. It's so good. That's it's really cute, actually.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

It reminds me of penguins. They bring rock rappers, they bring in their special rocks and things.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

Oh. Also, coincidentally, you can impress me by doing that too. You know, humans do do that. Yeah. They buy they buy rings and stuff, and they're like, here, look at this fancy metal. I can provide for you. This humans are rust monsters confirmed. I don't know if that was the takeaway, but I'm that's that was my takeaway. Um, also, so then you know, the the the female picks one with the best nuggets, the best nuggets and tail. And then in this, in this, they are um oviparous, they lay eggs. Um they lay spherical iron-colored eggs and a clutch of eight to twelve. Um they usually like hang out, you know, kind of around these, around where they lay the eggs. And after approximately a month, the eggs hatch. And in this, they are not like miniature adults in this ecology article. They are basically like little, little, little grubbins. Little grubbins? They're little grubbins with like very small antenna. They don't have um their legs and stuff yet. Um, they do still have the same corrosive ability, and over the next two years, they grow into their adult size. They're, you know, they grow their legs, their tail, um, their carapace. But basically when they're born, they just hatch as these little little grubbins. Little grubbins with antennae. Huh. Yeah. Um also the word moist was used a lot, but I felt like I should spare you guys from that. This also introduces the idea of a couple variants, not variants like actually, like there was not, it was not like a stat block, like this is a this one or whatever. Um, but more just from like a general ecological standpoint. Um, mutation is very common in Rust monsters, seeing as they are aberrations, which I should have mentioned earlier. Uh Rust monsters are aberrations. Okay. Deeply sorry for not mentioning that. Good to know. Um, I might I might go back and edit something in earlier. I don't know. It's okay. It's fine. Rust monsters are aberrations. Um and so given that it's very common for them to mutate, um, several regional variants exist. Um that makes sense. There are these blue-white colored rust monsters that prowl in Arctic regions, supplementing their oxidization process with extreme cold that shatters metals for them to then feast upon. Damn. Um, which is fun. Uh, mossy rust monsters live in damp rainforests and swamps, and their hides are riddled with spores. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I knew Taylor would like that one.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

Mossy, mossy spores.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Mossy, mossy, rusty spores. Um, and there are also kind of like like these these tannish, like khaki-colored rust monsters that live in the desert, um, and they reduce metal into sand instead of rust.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

What the hell?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:03

Yeah. So um, and that that was more of just like an ecological, like fun little tidbit idea, as opposed to this is an art, you know what I mean? Yeah. As is as it would be common. No, I like that. Which well, this is one that as much as I do appreciate the ecological tidbit, I would have also liked a um variation. Well, like traditional variation, yeah, and like a stat block that explains particularly how some of those things work, or would also work in like combat, for example. Um, and this actually the the reason I said the whole thing about the Rust Dragons earlier was funny, is because this immediately like takes that and re-establishes a link. Um so it said that there are a few theories that are unconfirmed that apply imply, pardon, that rust monsters are the larval stage of some other creature. There's not a lot of evidence of these, but there is the obvious link between Rust Monsters and Rush Dragons, as well as the Annihilators that live in the Underdark. Um, because, you know, Rust. You know, they do the same thing. They do rust. They do rust. Um, so many sages believe that a missing link in the Rush Dragon's origin might be explained by a connection between Rust Monsters and metallic dragons. This is interesting to me. Is not necessarily that rust monsters are the larval stage of rust dragons, but some studies claim that certain breeds of rust monsters seek out the eggs of metallic dragons and either taint the wormling within the egg or transform themselves after eating the eggs and feasting on the yolk, which is interesting. So it's not that that's a part in their evolution, but it's more like they go and fuck with some metallic dragon eggs. And that's how Rust mon or that's how Rust dragons are made.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

And given that there's not a true confirmed link between Rust Monsters and Rust Dragons in third edition, I'm not going to talk too much about Rust Dragons in third edition, but I don't think they're as cool because they don't have the teeny tiny butterfly wings, so like whatever. Who gives a shit? I'm kidding, I still give a shit because they're still dragons.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

But you're irritated.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Yeah, I am irritated.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:17

I'm always disappointed. Oh. Um, speaking of disappointed, um no. We're gonna talk about fourth edition.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

Okay, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

Here we go. Um, for this. They're here. Uh Whoop-de-doo. They appear in the Monster Manual 2. Again, they were not in the first edition of this one either, uh, which is published in 2009. Um, alongside the variants Young, Rust Monster Swarm, and Dwemer Eater.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

Um, no susp oh no specific mention is made of how their rusting ability works in fourth edition. Shocker. Surprise. I literally wrote in parentheses surprise, surprise in my notes. That's how fucking fed up I am.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:59

I am so surprised.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

I think I'm gonna have a heart attack. I'm not surprised. Um, but interestingly, which this is a whole um they can only truly destroy an item using the dissolve metal ability, which is separate from their other abilities to cause an that basically cause an item. One of them is like a really weak bite attack that causes an item to rust until the end of an of the encounter, incurring a temporary penalty to AC or attack rolls depending on if the item affected is an arm is armor or a weapon. Travis is doing a thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:31

I'm also doing a thing. Um, so let me let me just explain why I'm frustrated because I know that we come for fourth edition a lot, and it's not entire like at this point it's kind of just a meme, but I why would the Rust be like, oh okay, you killed my master, I just die. Well, I stop.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:51

Yeah, how the hell does the Rust just disappear? Is it now a magical like effect? What the fuck did they do?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:00

Okay, all right, let me there's there's more. I'm not even through the first paragraph. Um it's no, it's fine. It's fine. Um, I just you guys might need to take a breather before I tell you the rest of this. Um the former ability, the dissolved metal ability, is specified to only affect, quote, rusting items, aka like the the the the the implication would be that that is only iron-based or ferrous objects because those are the only things that well and truly rust. Rust. Like silver tarnishes, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:29

And uh copper patinas. It doesn't rust. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

So whereas the latter ability is able to affect anything. It does it does not specify that it is it only affects a rusting item. Um so the latter abilities, which includes both the attack as well as this happens if you hit it with metal thing, affect the so the ladder ability, um, abilities, excuse me, affect now the former ability, excuse me, the dissolved metal ability, can affect any rusting magical item of 10th level or lower, and any non-magical rusting item. Um so additionally here's where it really loses me. Oh no. Additionally, the Rust Monster consumes any destroyed item and breaks down magical ones into residuum, which I feel like we have not talked about, and this was a very unfamiliar concept to me. But if I am understanding it correctly, residuum is essentially the base component left behind from disenchanting magical items, which this residuum can then be cut out of their stomachs and sold at the same market value of the original magic item. Usually it is it can only be sold at one fifth of the original magic item, which is to say, and there was a whole thing paragraph underneath this where it basically talked about how this was to soften the like a potential encounter with a Rust monster, if you will. Which is like fair. I can understand how like a one Rust. Monster could come in and just wreck an entire party's shit in a way that it's like maybe it would be annoying to have to spend X amount of time in a session for them to get kind of get back to that point because it's like, oh, all your weapons are gone, all your armor's gone, for example.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:14

But it's like, but if you're if you're gonna put a rust monster in, put a fucking rust monster in. Don't be a don't be a bitch.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:23

Have some balls and just fucking use it. Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:26

Make sure they're not metal balls, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Okay, okay. No, I'm angry.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

In Kfave, this makes zero sense. No, I know. The whole rusting thing makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:35

Okay, well, the rusting thing makes zero sense. The the being able to sell back at market value of the original or enchanted item makes zero sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

Because I can understand for selling back for part of it, or it's like, okay, we have the residuum from this, so if we get these other components, we could make a new one. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:53

Like recycling it into making another of that same item.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

It's like okay. You just take it back and it's like, okay, I'm gonna sell the residuum for the value of the sword and buy myself a new sword.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:04

And it's like, no. What's the point? And also, like, it makes no sense economically. Like, you're you're the economy. The economy. Because you're you're spending this, like, did money for labor not go into that? Like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Pay your goldsmiths. Pay your pay your blacksmithers. Pay your blacksmiths.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:27

It just it doesn't make any sense. This literally is implying that their rusting ability is a magical effect that disappears when it dies. Yeah, so um but it's not.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:39

I'm angry.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:44

I'm angry. The economy.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:47

Okay, so you mentioned a fucking swarm of them?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:51

Yeah, so basically Excuse me? Um, so yeah, the uh it's not very exciting. The um the Rust Monster, the young Rust Monster Swarm is similar, but it has a higher level and better stats, um, because it's a whole bunch of them. It's a s it's a literal swarm of babies. Um, but at the cost of being unable to use the dissolve metal ability. So like whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:16

So they can still rust, but they can't dissolve.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

See. Which again, there's no there's no foundation of like, okay, well, babies don't develop the ability to rust until egg.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:27

Now it's just there's There's just no explanation to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:30

No explanation per usually. Um and the Dwemer Eater that I mentioned earlier is a rust monster that's been souped up from consuming large amounts of magical items and residuum and can use dissolved metal on magical items of higher levels than a standard rust monster, which is restricted to only being able to dissolve rusting magical items of 10th level or lower, as well as temporarily quote unquote decaying the enchantment of a magical implement or weapon that it is hit by.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:57

What the fuck? How do you temporarily decay something? Dude, you know what decay means?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:05

I don't know. I don't I don't know, okay? You're asking me these questions that I don't have answers to.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:11

To be fair, I'm not really asking you, I'm just shouting it into like Travis is asking the universe. I don't understand how it uh we try sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:23

I know it doesn't seem like it, but we do try to not just shit on fourth edition.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:27

But like this one does this.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

So makes no sense. So, um I'm here to uh I'm here to be the bearer of bad news. Um it does not actually get any better in fifth edition.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

Um I'm not this time disappointed in you.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

Fifth edition, you don't even know what's been what you don't know what to say, and you're already disappointed.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:54

Yeah, but we're still disappointed.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:56

Um so the in fifth edition is monster manual released in 2014. I literally didn't even write it in my notes because it's just so like your head. It's just the fifth edition monster manual was released in 2014. So uh get ready. The Rust Monster corrodes a non-magical ferrous metal object it can see within five feet of it. Um so it can't even corrode magical items anymore. Um cool. So and it doesn't it it doesn't instantly destroy it either, which you could take or leave that this makes sense. Um if the object touched as either metal armor or a shield being worn or carried, it takes a permanent uh and you as you get a DC 11 dexterity saving throw. You get a permanent and cumulative negative one penalty to the AC it offers. So if your armor is reduced to an AC of 10, which is the base AC for a person, um, or a shield drops to a plus zero bonus, then it is destroyed. So it's not a touch and you're fucked. I mean And it can also smell any ferrous metal within 30 feet now. So prior in fourth edition, how it detected metal was not explained at all. It did not say that it was by cent, so it is by cent again. Um and at this point, this is not necessarily a fault of fifth edition because they have been gradually getting weaker and less threatening um throughout editions. Like yeah. You know, it it at various points it had, you know, like in third edition, you could get six to eight dice or six to eight hit dice ones or nine to fifteen hit dice ones of these different size categories. Um, you know, in fourth edition, they were limited somewhat in what they could do, but they could still um rust magical items. Um they had like an AC of 20, 66 HP. And now in fifth edition, they have an AC of 14 and uh 27 hit points and are a one-half challenge rating, which is a significant step down from where they started as basically being the surprise wrench that DMs could throw into their campaigns whenever their their their fighters and their their heavily armored clerics and paladins were getting a little too confident.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:17

Okay, so I I am gonna have to interject here on behalf of fifth edition for one part.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

Yeah, well, I'm saying that that where they've ended up was a gradual process.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:28

It's just you know it's just I just uh I just have to point out though, and then when it comes to the challenge ratings of the monsters, the challenge ratings are based solely off of their stat blocks, pretty much that are above it, their health, their armor, their dexterity saving throws, it does not take into account what their abilities could do because that would just be too difficult. And it even like tells you in the dungeon master's guide that when creating an encounter, if you're doing the whole challenge rating scale thing, to take into consideration the actual abilities because some creatures might be a little bit stronger than the challenge rating suggests.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:06

Depending on because uh, for example, if you threw a rust monster at like a party full of of casty boys and girls and and friends, like nothing. It's no big deal. Yeah, it wasn't. Literally no big deal. But the the the fact that they can no longer rust um magical weapons magical weapons, and the fact that the DC for the deck save is so low is kind of just a final not metal nail in the coffin.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:31

I feel like and I I s like I definitely feel like Rust Monsters have very much gotten the short end in the stick when it comes to this. I feel like fifth edition is a closer attempt at nerfing the Rust Monsters than like fourth attention, fourth edition.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:48

Yeah, fourth edition, they just kind of threw something up.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:50

At least you can rationalize why it takes longer for them to destroy an item in fifth edition, whereas you can't rationalize any fucking reason why it just stops. Just disappears at the end of an encounter.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:03

Like it's not as in intense, but it's still permanent.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:06

Well, and you well, the funny part is is also it it didn't And like I'm not gonna defend Fifth Edition to the end about that either. Like I still feel like they shouldn't have changed the ability to rust non-magical items or magical items rather.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:22

But but fifth edition one did make one not only like new and worthwhile, but really, really good note. Um, and that is the note that if sufficiently fed and cared for, rust monsters can become friendly pets. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:37

Okay, fifth edition, you are redeemed. Redeemed, you can do no wrong.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:41

You can have a pet rust monster. I would love to have a pet rust monster.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:46

I need one. With all of these metal things I'm looking at literally in this room right now. Okay, well it's not allowed in here.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:52

Yeah. I literally have a pile of scrap metal out there it can eat now.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:59

Oh, yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:00

Literally.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:01

You just like look back and your entire forge is gone and you're like, wait. Like that entire scrap pile. Oh, but Rusty, you're so cute.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:09

Is pretty much all rusted at this point. Like it's already to the rusted stage.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:13

So it's it can gorge itself. Yeah. So um that's Rust Monsters. That's Rust Monsters. We've we have finished with uh not with a bang, but with a whimper. And it and it's such a cute little whimper. I know it's a cute wimp. Oh yeah, you eat that stupid paladin sword.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:34

Oh, yep, there's the paladin hatred.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:36

I know I said the word I said the word paladin in a not mean context like several times this episode. I was I'm very proud of you.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:43

I'm so surprised.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:45

It it didn't feel good. I had to get one last fucking joke about paladin sword. One jab in. I had to get one jab in, which that paladin will no longer be able to do with that sword.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:56

There's okay. Like we're doing this again. No, I'm I'm I'm recovered. Um I'm I'm my okay is that I I really like rust monsters and they're really cute, and I didn't realize how much I was going to enjoy them.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:09

I honestly didn't either. I was thinking that they were gonna be some like awful nuisance horrible monster.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:18

And this this um this research took a couple of very interesting turns for me. For one, with the the injected pseudoscience of like the bacteria and what have you. And also the connection with rush dragons. If I knew there were gonna be dragons, I would have done this ages ago.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

So if you have dragon content, tell Lewin. If you have surprise surprise dragons, forget surprise panthers. I want surprise dragons.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:41

Surprise dragons.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:42

I mean it's always so I I do love me some surprise panthers too.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:46

I mean, is it ever a surprise that there's dragons with me?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:49

Sometimes. This time. This time was the surprise. Actually, yeah, this time wasn't it.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:53

Yeah, you're right. Um I mean, all in all though, really good. And I guess we can't really expect all things to end with a bang.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:00

No, but that that's okay. I mean, we we literally had like five minutes of screaming.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:05

I'm sorry. I think um I think it would be nice though if maybe in later 5th edition publications they introduced like souped up variants of Rust monsters. Like maybe some that over time have grown to figure out how to Well, to maybe like larger sizes that produce a and also some that sort of taking the idea of the Dwimmer Eater from 4th edition, where they've maybe been magically influenced in such a way to be able to rust magical items. Yeah, I think that would be a good addition. So you could have this kind of lower level, you know, first brush with dealing with rust monsters for your party early on, and then have one that's actually very like actively very dangerous later, like some like they were in earlier editions. Yeah. I like that. I I do.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:52

And it's not fire me. It's not uncommon to have a creature or monster that is either magically created or magically enhanced as we have the mimics.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:05

Also bring back Rust Dragons, because they haven't been in here since third edition. Bring bring back Rust Dragons.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:10

Yeah, they dwindled the dragons down the wee bit. Uh between fourth and between third and fourth. I was like between the four.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:20

No, I mean there were a lot of dragons in fourth edition. Fair. Well, yeah, okay. They dro they they dwindled other things between third and fourth. Anyway. Anyways.

unknown 1:18:32

Damn.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:33

Thank you guys so much for listening. To whatever don't forget to follow us on Twitter, on Instagram. For more screaming. For more screaming. Um spread the word to your friends. Your friends who like screaming. Your friends who like rust. I don't know. Your friends who like surprise dragons.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:52

Surprise dragons. Uh uh, your your friends who have like tarantulas' pets.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

Or your friends who for some weird reason have a huge hatred of metal.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:02

Your your fairy friends.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:06

So over the past couple of weeks, well, it's been a few weeks, we have been collaborating with Joey, who is uh on Twitch at JSSsonar, or sorry, JSsonar, uh, and on on Twitter as The Goth Father, who is doing a podcast called The Underdorks, where he interviews uh people about Dungeons and Dragons and does uh drawings of characters and the like. And so we have already done a collaboration, one interview with each of us. And I'm not sure when they're going to go live on his YouTube.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:42

Um, it feels so weird to say interview.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:46

But uh if you want to follow him, his Twitter handle, I believe, is again at the Goth Father, and the Underdorks is at the Underdorks.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:56

Um, I believe at the Underdorks, yes, but it is actually at JSS13 on Twitter. His name on there is the Gothfather. My bad. His at handle is uh at JSS13.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:11

Oh, dang.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:11

I was gonna buy at the Goth Father from him, but and uh yes, it does b wow, it does appear to be at the underdorks.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:22

So uh just a shout out to Joey. Thank you so much for wonderful interviews.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:27

It was fantastic and fun, and we know you're a big fan of Knolls, but maybe Rust Monster.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:34

But if you're interested in art and dragons and in general, really cool metal art, check him out.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:43

Oh sorry, I actually just went to the Underdorks Twitter page, and he actually posted an hour ago from this recording that the inaugural episode of the Underdorks is now live. Oh, cool. So their first episode is dedicated to homebrewing knolls.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:02

Yes. Which is Joey's favorite. Which is a very uh a very interesting topic, good topic.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:07

Yeah. And uh if you want to view that, just uh you can either go to his Twitter page and there's a link on the pin tweet, or if you go to YouTube, it's just the underdorks on YouTube. Search it and you can find it and see his art and everything. And it's just really great. So uh congratulations to the underdorks for publishing your first episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:29

And thank you once again, Joey, and thank you for listening, Joey.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:32

Yes, that as well. Um if you have anything that you would like to suggest, as always, you can email us at dungeonpedia.podcast at gmail.com. Topics, suggestions, talking, complaining, you know, all that lovely things.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:47

Telling me what the um quotation marks and fucking advancers and dragons means, because I don't know if I don't know what it means, and at this point I'm too afraid to ask.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:57

But thank you guys once again for listening, and we'll catch you next week. For sure this time on Dungeon Pedia.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:05

I still want to pet Rust monster.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:07

Rusty, Rusty, Rusty.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:08

I mean, is it played at that point to name him Rusty? Because that's what they're babies doing. Okay, okay.