91: Demon Flap-flaps

This week, Travis takes us back unduh da seeeea to tell us about the ixe- ixitch- ixitxachitl, a race of intelligent manta rays with varying levels of association with the demons.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You the adventurer? Yes, you. Do you desire knowledge of immense worlds and arcane power? A codex of untold stories and lore? Or perhaps simply easy listening for your daily commute. Then feast your eyes, or more accurately, yes, upon Dungeon Pedia. Shit's about to get nerdy in here.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Taylor Stanfield. And I'm Travis Beasley. Okay. So Travis, what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Well, um, see, here's the thing. It's an exoticdle.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

No, I think it's Gazuntite. No, I think it's pronounced exit executive.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Executive. It is an executive, yes. Correct. We're talking about executives today. Welcome to our business podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Oh good. Oh, I quit. I hate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

I also hate it. Let's say.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Oh, okay. So ex an exarch. And Final Fantasy 14 spoilers. I don't even know what I spoiled. Me neither. No, you you you you didn't. Hey, y'all, listeners, if you know, you know. And you're also probably crying with me. Um, so this is your weekly reminder that we're really bad at pronouncing things.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

There are three white people. It no, okay, here. If you have a Native American, like indigenous American word, there's a fucking 80% chance I can pronounce that bitch. Almost anything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:58

We're just completely we're just three dumb Americans. Dumb white Americans. Yeah. Are not. I don't know. Like, and I'm not. I can't roll my R's. I can't make the double L. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

I can also not roll my R's.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Fucking show off. I can't make fucking bags. The only thing I can do. I can't make the double L like Welsh sound. I am not very lingually dexterous. So, like, I know we joke about it a lot, but this is your weekly reminder that we're really bad at pronouncing things. So uh Exit chat. Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah. So first of all, uh this episode was requested by Tyler Gordon. So thank you, Tyler, for giving me the torture of having to pronounce this thing.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Unless you only suggested it so that way you could hear us try to struggle to say this, in which case that's not very nice. That's valid though. That's that's valid.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

It was also valid. Um looking into it, it it did actually turn out to be kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_04 2:55

So I definitely went with it. I do remember a couple things about these guys because I saw things about them in the abil aboleth or the the Sahoagan, actually, I think. Sahwagan. It was the Sahouagan.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

They do have a tie to the Sahwagan. Yeah. So there is a pronunciation that I put next to this, and we are talking about the Ig Zit Zat Chittle.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Exit Zat Chittle.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 3:17

I mean, and you can say it when you like pause and sound it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Exit Zachle?

SPEAKER_04 3:21

But you can't just say like, oh yeah, that exit. Yeah, it's there. That existential crisis that I'm having trying to pronounce.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Thankfully, they're also known as the Demon Ray, which is what I will be referring to them from now on because that name is just way too ridiculous for me to pronounce.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

I am not going to refer to them henceforth as Demon Ray because I'm not a fucking coward. So I am.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

So the uh Demon Rays are aquatic creatures that kind of resemble Manta Rays, more or less.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Uh they kind of have the same. Do you have a um a power over them as well? I might. I I would have to meet one to find out, but I might. They kind of have the like same sort of color tone, like a plain brown or black like topside. Their underside is usually like a lighter color.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Mm-hmm. Kind of like real manta rays.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah, they look pretty much like manta rays, except they're evil. Awww.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Yeah, because real manta rays are good-aligned. Yeah. As we all know. As we all know.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

As we all know. Um they uh live in the oceans in uh Tauril, or I guess of Tauril, technically.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

And they are often known to be the evil servants of Demogorgon. Oh, that guy. That guy. Which I just have to side note here and just kind of laugh at, because this was not planned at all, but we literally just got done playing our campaign with uh one of our or a few of our work friends, where we had to escape a fucking Demogorgon cult. Cult, basically.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Yeah. Y'all's work friends.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Lewin still does not work with us. And I was I was only brought in because they were dying, and they needed somebody strong. That's not true.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

That's not true.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

They needed somebody strong with a full play too. They wanted somebody, they needed somebody strong with a full HP pool to come in and help them out. So I mean we did need some help.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

That's not that that's not that part's not enough.

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Yeah, so afterwards the DM was like, alright, that was cool, never contact me again, and then he blocked me.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 5:31

Hi CJ. Hi, CJ.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

I was gonna say, you know that he listens to this, and he's gonna hear that.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

Hi, CJ. I'm sorry for slandering you.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yeah. So uh I just kind of found that funny that this happened to coincide with Demogorgon. It's funny how those things happen.

SPEAKER_04 5:46

So how sometimes you run into Demogorgon. It's funny how sometimes you run into the Prince of Demons, yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yes, naturally. So, um and other than the Sofagan episode, I actually never really heard about these things. So the fact that they've been in DD for pretty much the entirety of its life, it kind of surprised me.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

Oh, really? Huh. Yeah. Because I I didn't know anything about them besides just they don't get on with the Sahuagan and they're that it makes them on part with everyone. Like pretty much everybody else, except for like some varieties of sharks. But it's like, oh, they're demon mantraes that don't get on with the Sahuagan next. Yeah, it it's weird. Oh, next onto the next race of sentient beings that don't get along with the Sahuagan.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

I would also like to point out that in the early editions, it does actually say that Demon Ray is kind of a misnomer. They're not demons. I think the first time they're actually referred to being something other than an aquatic creature is in third edition, where they are considered aberrations. Oh, okay. So they're technically demons, they just serve the Prince of Demons. Yeah. Gotcha. They just kind of got the misnomer of Demon Ray.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Yeah, because people found it too hard to pronounce their names, so they were like, Alright, we gotta we gotta we gotta get an American name for all these dumb Americans. Oh my god. Because they can't pronounce our actual names. Alright.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Uh and but you know, also to be fair, um, what what is that thing that they tell you that's really mean when you're in high school? Oh, guilty by association.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Oh yeah, that too. Yeah. That too. So uh starting from the monster manual from first edition, it says that they can appear in numbers between 10 to 100.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

That's not that's not a big range at all. That yeah, that's not helpful, admittedly.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Alright, cool. Um their AC is zero, or not zero, six. I was going to say those are very different numbers. Um I was thinking of the fact that I should remind just in case anyone forgot, this is the Thaco system. So six is not a good AC. Six is a horrible AC. So it was they have no armor at all.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

It's more akin to if they had a zero presently. Pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Right, yeah. Very close to. And their hit die is literally just one plus one.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Wait, what is that again, Travis? Wanna do a little math for us? Uh fish. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

You did great. Great job. 100% score, you get a little sticker on your math test. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

I never got those on my math test.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

No.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

I got them on my spelling test.

SPEAKER_04 8:31

Okay, well, spell X it's a chittel for me. Oh, I did it! You did it! I did it! I did it, I did it, you did it.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Uh, surprising. Yes, that is actually probably a uh good thing to point out. The reason we have so many issues pronouncing it is because it is spelled or blah. I X. Apparently not I T X-A-C-H I T L. Yeah, it's it's ridiculous. Um their alignment is chaotic evil and literally stays that way forever. Yeah. They are always chaotic evil.

SPEAKER_04 9:09

Yeah, I mean, given that they're fans of Demogorgon, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

That tracks. Um they are actually like high intelligence, average to high, they are very intelligent creatures, turns out.

SPEAKER_04 9:21

I mean, probably in comparison to a lot of other DD sea life. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess, well, there like there's more intelligent things in the ocean and Dungeons and Dragons than there are. Well, maybe we do have intelligent things in the oceans. That's horrifying about it. Yeah. That is horrifying. But you can't. You know what I mean though. Like, more than just what you might look at and say, oh, that's an animal.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

You know what I mean? Yeah. So this is the uh more fascinating part, is they are actually clerical in nature. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

These manta rays are clerics. Mansa clerics. Manta clerics. Cleric rays.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

And obviously, this does give them the ability to cast clerical spells. Is they're clerics of Demogorgan.

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Right. Yeah, no, I had a feeling that was coming.

SPEAKER_04 10:11

Is uh Ray of Frost. Oh my god. See, I didn't want to say it, but I started laughing. So then you had to? And then I had to, because I mean I'm sure I'm sure everyone already does this, but someone would just be listening and be like, why the fuck is Loon laughing in the background like an idiot? That's why.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Oh. So um despite the fact that, you know, they are pretty weak, which is probably a good thing considering that they can appear in such large numbers.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

And also they're very intelligent and have cleric powers. That too.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Um, there is a bit of math that's involved in it. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Oh, well, luckily for you, you're really good at math. So get ready to get another sticker.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Get dunked on. Damn. So for every 10 that are encountered, there will be one of which is the equivalent of a second level human cleric.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

With regard to spell use. Their head die is also a little bit higher, not by much, and I don't even remember the specifics on it. Right. It's probably like, I don't know, two plus one or something. Probably. And then for every 20, there will be an equivalent of a third level cleric. For every 50, there will be that one that is fifth level. And if there are more than 50, there will be a leader that is an eighth-level clerical spell and quadruple the normal hit dice. I can't believe he's a whole spell. He's a full spell. Um on top of that, there will be two guards of sixth level, which also have triple the normal hit dice.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

So over 50, let's say, an encounter group of, let's say 69. Um, there's the eighth level cleric leader type, two sixth level guards, and at that point there would be uh at one fifth level, three third level, and six point nine second level. Yes. Okay, gotcha. Exactly that.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

My brain just broke. Same. Um, they are also vampiric. Yep, they sure are. Turns out. What? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

So I want to say I've mentioned that in the Sohawagon. I think you think you did. I'm not trying to like steal your thunder here, but. I'm pretty sure you did.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

It still caught me off guard when I read it because I was like, wait, they're fucking vampiric? Oh. Yeah. So for every 20 that are encountered, there's a 50% chance that at least one of them will be a vampiric type.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

So in that sample encounter group of 69, they're like 34.5 that are vampires. Yes. I don't like that.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Though they are not actually vampires.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Oh, they're not? They're just vampires.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

They're not considered vampires, they are just vampiric.

unknown 12:58

No.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

Their type doesn't change. Just they share pretty much like one to two abilities with vampires depending on what edition you're in.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Huh. Okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

So um the vampiric ones, at least in first edition, are similar in the fact that they regenerate three HP per round, and they can drain an energy level each time they strike an opponent.

SPEAKER_04 13:21

Okay, so.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

And they have double the normal hit dice.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Yeah. Okay. But yeah. So nothing exciting. Nothing terribly like insane. Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Exciting, I would say, probably.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

Man, imagine being a vampire mantra that can't cross moving water.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Oh! And that is one of the reasons it actually specified that they are not considered to be vampires. Can you imagine? Because they would die immediately.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Combining our last two episodes together, one of these uh demon rays who's like, I want to be a vampire, and the genie's like, you got it.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

And the monkey's paw curls further in. Yep. And suddenly you're a And suddenly you're completely immobilized and you basically just die. Die. You just suffocate.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Isn't that what happens if you don't use your swe? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Um, that is at least what happens to some. Isn't that what happens to sharks? That is what happens to sharks.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

If they're not moving, they suffocate. Yes. Nah. I thought it was only if they got turned upside down.

SPEAKER_03 14:28

No, that's turtles.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Well, very I'm remembering a sad amount of things that can happen to animals. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Hmm. So uh Back to vampire manta rays. Back to vampire manta rays. And just the demon rays in general. Their layers are typically made in coral reefs and are usually hidden by a secret entrance, and that makes them like very difficult to find. Their layers are also kind of made in like a maze sort of way. I I love it. So if you do find the entrance, you uh will probably get lost in it.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

Naturally. Yeah, and you know, I will say, I feel like of the people at this of this at this table, I'm certainly not the most terrified of the ocean.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

No, that's of the people here, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

But the idea of getting lost and stuck in an underwater cave is absolutely terrifying. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yes, yes, it is. It is horrifying.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

So this so then you have like underwater cave with vampire manta rays in it, and it's just like a whole new level of awful. Oh new awful. Hi, welcome to our Subnautica Let's Play. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

That particular uh part will get even worse later on.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

Oh yay, I love it when it gets worse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

So uh the Demon Rays also have an ecology article. Yay! Which, you know, always love ecology articles. Oh yeah. So uh this was from Dragon Magazine number 85 from 1984. And uh it this one is one of the ones that is written as basically like an excerpt from a uh expedition? No, from a like a like a high wizards journal, basically.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

Okay, so like a study. Yeah, yeah. Wait, so like a high-ranking wizard or a wizard that's, you know, been smoking. Could have been both.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

It really could have been both. You're just never quite sure when it comes to wizards.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Your experience of professors tells me yes. Just yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

So uh, as was mentioned, uh, they do worship the Prince of Demons. Good old Dimagorgon. Yeah, that bastard. And uh through him, that is how they gain their clerical spells. Uh some of them actually have the ability equal to what is a patriarch. Uh I'm not quite sure what that means because this was still in like first, second edition.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Um that was that was that was basically uh an expression of a clerical level. Okay, so yeah. So that's basically just a really high cleric.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

That's a cleric that's been.

SPEAKER_04 17:12

That's a that's a cleric whose god is cool and lets them imbibe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

So they are rarely seen by humans or humanoids, mostly because we tend to stay out of the water as much. Well, some of us. Some of us. They are pretty numerous as far as their race goes, and they do rule like very large areas like the coastal waters.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

Well, you said they can appear in encounter groups of like 10 to 100, so that's pretty that implies that they have numeras. They're massive.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah. Um, they rely on their aggressive nature and their magical, lovely clerical powers to build basically an undersea empire. Sick. So you have these fucking demon-ray cleric vampires that build empires.

SPEAKER_04 18:01

I mean, that kind of makes sense as too. Like that would that would put them particularly in conflict with the Sahuagan a lot because the Sahuagan have a pretty similar spec as far as that goes. Being very imperial. Yeah, being very like, you know, maintaining kingdoms and shit like that. Yep. Under the sea.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Shocking to probably no one. They are carnivorous.

SPEAKER_04 18:23

Wild. And yeah, wouldn't wouldn't have believed that.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Right. They will pretty much prey on like any marine life that they can kill. So Which probably a lot of things. It's a lot of things. Probably. This is sometimes extended to where they will gather in like giant hunting parties or packs to uh take down giant octopi whales. And it said on at least one document occasion, a dragon turtle.

SPEAKER_04 18:51

Oh shit! Oh man, and that's that is because I mean I hate to be reductive, but like just like animals, that's kind of one thing, especially when you're going up against a whole group of of intelligent creatures that have magical powers. But like a dragon turtle is nothing to sneeze at. Quite a fucking feat.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. And they don't just like hunt in their like general vicinity of their lairs either. They will stray far from it if they need to to go hunt, which often leads them to battling against the Sahuwagan, yeah, the Lokotha, and it said, especially Tritons and Merman.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, that makes sense because they really don't have allies. No. Well, because they're kind of dicks. Well, yeah, and they're they're very like dialectically opposed to Tritons and Mermen. Because Tritons and Mermen also really, really did not like Sahuwagen, because Sahuagan are also evil and dicks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

So Don't be a dick. Don't be a dick. It actually said that the uh Tritons and Mermen are the reason why the Demon Rays have not like mastered the entire ocean, and that's just because of the fact that they have like the superior organization and tactics against the Demon Rays, so they're able to at the very least keep them from taking over everything.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Keep them at bay.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

That that took me too long to even realize. Jesus Christ. Um, despite that fact though, there are some areas of the world where the demon rays have all but eradicated like the aquatic elves in that area. Ramp. I don't know why it's specifically mentioned aquatic elves. I don't know if that's just like something they decided that's what they dominated or I mean don't ask me, I don't know anything about elves.

SPEAKER_04 20:45

So now what's an elf?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah. Uh so there is the well, I actually don't know how many people know this, but there is like this lovely uh issue. Issue, mm-hmm, I suppose. Uh I have issues pronouncing the word enmity. Enmity? Enmity, yeah. Uh between Orcus and Demogorgon.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

Uh yes. That yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

That old chestnut.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

That old That old chestnut. Yeah. It's a phrase. So we'll use it. This means that any of the intelligent marine undead that are around will not aid and will sometimes actively oppose the demon rays just because of the fact that one is Orcas and one is Demogorgon. Yeah. Yeah. And then the demon rays will devour such prey whenever they can.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

And this also means that the undead will largely just avoid them. But there are times that they will just actively oppose them if they can.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Right. You don't want to shoot yourself in the foot to to get the guy that you hate, uh, but like But also If if you can shove him down a flight of stairs, you're gonna. Yeah. Right. Man.

SPEAKER_04 21:56

We're gonna he fucking sucks. We're gonna have to do an Orgus episode, one of these things. We are. Because he fucking sucks.

SPEAKER_03 22:02

I You love him. Say it. It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

No, I don't think I do actually. You love how much you hate him? I just love how just ubiquitous his presence is in so many of these episodes, and how it feels like he always has a fucking problem with someone else.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Or or It's never his fault.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Or never. Or, you know, like he's got he's got problems with Demogorgon. He's got problems with Kellenbor. Um Who the fuck do you like that's on your team, man?

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Probably no one.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

No one, probably, yeah. Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

You're not wrong. Now, the uh Demon Rays are made a bit more frightening in the fact that while they do have the clerical powers, some of them have uh especially powerful abilities that they can actually raise additional recruits using the anime dead spell.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

That feels more like Orcus's realm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah, so see, here's the thing. Is because of Orcus, and because of like the influence Orcus has against all the other undead, they are pretty much like completely unable to magically control or influence any of the living undead, I guess. The not the undead that they did not raise. Okay. Gotcha. Let me specify that. So they can't, like, control or do anything to them as far as like their undead abilities. But the Demon Rays will often use the powers of the anime dead spell to raise their fallen allies. Okay. Yeah, okay that that tracks. And while this does basically turn them into zombies and they can't like act on their own will, they pretty much only do this just to increase their attack forces.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

Yeah, just like warm, if you will. Quote unquote warm. Lukewarm bodies. If you will, bodies, you know. Because sometimes that's what you need. So some of them lukewarm bodies.

unknown 24:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 24:02

Just meat sacks to take some more hits for you. Kind of like what my what my character was brought in for.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

No, he's not he's not lukewarm, he's a hot boy.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

True.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

So uh in battle, they prefer because of their numbers to take the uh confusing approach. Yeah, of course. Whereas like they will literally just confuse the enemy because they will rapidly swoop in at their opponents from multiple sides. Right. So you can't really like bearing on who's attacking when or from where.

SPEAKER_04 24:40

Sometimes they also like come up and introduce themselves, and then while their enemies are trying to struggle how to like say their name, they attack them. Because that's also really that's really confusing.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Um they are often led by a vampire variety uh using this particular maneuver, which the vampire varieties serve as both envied and powerful war leaders to their whole colony.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

Yeah, which tracks, because the vampire varieties are like inherently stronger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Um the vampires are also incredibly influential in their society as well.

SPEAKER_04 25:19

So not just from like a like a leader of a hunting party or whatever, but they might be kind of like the d de facto noble. Yeah, like a kind of like a leader in their community.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah, they can become leaders.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Whatever chaotic evil community they have. You know what I mean? Do do chaotic evil ha have community? Uh I mean I mean yes. Yes. It's just whether or not how organized it is or yeah, whatever, how cooperative it is.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Their laws aren't like, you know, their laws aren't laws.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Yeah. Their laws are suggestions. If that.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

So the social leaders, which are the like most powerful uh blah, the most powerfully endowed. Endowed? Yep. That is the phrasing they used, and I was like, I have to use this.

SPEAKER_04 26:05

I'm glad that we know that these rays are endowed. Yep, powerfully endowed. I hate it. I I mean listen, I know what that's like, so I get it.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

So anyway, these uh social leaders usually prefer to hang back in battle until like the single most powerful opponents are identified, and that's when they start attacking them with spells. Oh, so they're little bitches.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Yeah, they they're well, I was gonna say, like, well, when you said they hang back, I was gonna say they're pussies, but they're actually just like glory stealers. They're snipers. They're snipers. They're kill stealers. Damn it.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Jesus. Um, they do have another tactic of hunting if they're on their own, which is they will sometimes burrow into the bottom sand where they hang on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

Fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yep, leaves only their eyes uncovered, and they will do this to escape dangerous foes, but it's more often used to ambush be cute and be super cute.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

To be super cute and ambush prey.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

I love it when you're super cute and ambush prey.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

How's the same me watching Hades and Lilith play with those little mouse toys? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Yeah. Fuck. So kind of similar to sharks, they can sense vibrations in the water from like a great distance away because they have all these like receptors on their backs and their tails. So, like, kind of the same as like splashing around or kind of like an explosion like far off, they can tell.

SPEAKER_04 27:45

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Even if they're like really far away.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Kind of like the inverse of what Ichthyodrakes do, where they produce those vibrations to draw predators like sharks and shit to them. Yeah. It's sort of like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

So that that would be something that the manta ray the manta ray.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

The manta. Just regular yeah, surprise. The regular ass mantaes.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Just regular ass manta rays. The demon rays would probably go and inspect. Alright, Demon Rays versus Ichthyodrake. Fight. Uh, they also have their own language that they can speak in. And this is where it gets kind of weird because it also said that they sometimes will speak to Sahwagan that have learned like just enough of their language to communicate with them. But they but they also attack them. So what's the truth? I mean, maybe there are some bands of the Sahouagan that are just like, hey, we don't want to kill you, just leave alone.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

They just want to collaborate together on fucking up the sea elves. Yeah. Because they both hate the sea elves and have their issues with them. So I mean it tracks like so the Sahuwagan are pretty much, I would imagine, more than intelligent enough to learn like another language like that, but they hate each other. So maybe they just maybe they just when they say can communicate with Sahogan who have learned just enough, they just learn all the cuss words. Yes. So they can they can insult them while they're trying to murder them. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Um, there are also cases where some of them are powerful enough to use the spells that allow them to magically communicate with other creatures as well. So some of them might be able to actually just communicate with anyone as long as they have the spell available. Okay, cool. So you know. But they also have a second form of language that they use just amongst themselves. Well, I guess mostly amongst themselves. And again, it says some of the sohwagon. And this language is best described as touch telepathy. Ooh. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

Okay, yeah. I'm intrigued. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yeah. So it's a form of like limited mental exchange, basically, that is possible only between creatures that the demon rays are actually touching using their tails. Or usually their tails. Right, right. Because I guess the receptors on their tails are a lot more powerful, so it's easier to communicate that way. And it's communication, not like full sentences, but they can be like short sentences, they can be conveying like specific emotions, maybe receiving specific commands. Because the weirdest thing that I can just I picture it every time I read it, is there are apparently groups of the demon rays that will sometimes travel in stacks.

SPEAKER_04 30:35

No.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

What? No. Where they are actually touching belly to back and their fins will be beating in unison.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

This is a pancakes!

SPEAKER_01 30:47

It's like a pancake! C pancakes! Stack of sea pancakes! Now we have a stack of sea pancakes.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Oh man, let me go to let me go to Ocean IHOP and get me some of those C pancakes. That's so cute. Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Right? And like some people believed at first that this was like a mating thing, but it's not. This is actually just a form of their mental communication. It's how these big groups can constantly communicate with.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

Hey, I mean, I don't know. Mating is a form of communication if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

I mean, Porca and Olos those, right? I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

I mean, to be fair, I don't think that's how manta rays actually fuck. I think they're both bottom side down, but whatever.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

So um the demon rays appear externally identical.

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Oh, you oh, okay, yeah, okay, alright, we're here now. We're here now.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

So um to other creatures, all of the demon rays look the same. Right. But the demon rays themselves are actually able to distinguish the different sexes and individuals even from like a large distance. Right. That attracts they are them. Yeah, they are indeed them. And uh each creature mates once a year. I don't think that's a good at varying times.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

Oh, so they don't have like a breeding season.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah, and it mostly stated because under the ocean there are no seasons like we have on top.

SPEAKER_03 32:20

Uh you can't see, but I'm rolling my eyes out of my head.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Yeah, I know. But it's DD, just remember that. Alright. So the mating process is initiated by the females. Okay. Alright. Which they choose, and it's dated, sometimes aggressively, a male partner.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Huh. Okay. Okay. Alright. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

With it so far. Some of the sages apparently argue that they do this deliberately in an attempt to improve the race. So like the stronger females will choose the stronger males to make stronger offspring. I mean, that track that does track. It would make sense, but it was never, I guess, technically proven that that's why they do it. But and it doesn't actually explain the exact mating process either. Damn it! So I don't know how mana rays mate, but however they do it is probably roughly the same as Demon Rays. That's what I'm gonna go with.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

That also makes sense. I mean, yeah, that I feel like that tracks.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

Lou and how do manerays fuck? Um, one sec, I'm waiting for the page to load. Oh, well, there's biting. Oh no, manta rays have claspers too. Oh, I thought they did. I thought they might, because they're also cartilaginous fish. But they have claspers. Oh boy. Oh boy. That's how. Yeah. They just kind of they grabbed. They just kind of and just kind of slip it in there.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Is what kind of young do they birth? Is it one? Is it multiple? Do they lay eggs?

SPEAKER_04 34:02

Apparently, according to this, it is one per breeding season. Is it? And it says a because it should be live young if I'm understanding.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

I believe it is, yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

I believe they are viviparous.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

There are an upsetting amount of fish that are, because like growing up, you're like, fish lay eggs, and then it's like, except for this list of fish, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:26

Okay, this word says ovovifiparity, and I don't know what that means. That sounds like it says both.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Hmm. Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

We'll get back to you on that.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:36

Oh, yeah, okay, okay, okay, all right. Apparently they do give birth to live young, according to this article entitled A Peak Inside the Manta Ray Womb. So there you go.

SPEAKER_03 34:47

Well, thank you for the peak inside the Manta Ray Womb. Yeah. Alright, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

So, uh, and I'll get to kind of their life cycle and everything at the end of this, because it had side notes for specifics on it. But uh, some of the Demon Rays will continue to grow in power even after they reach adulthood. Uh-huh. And these are the ones that usually become like the leaders and the decision makers. Right. But this is only if they are accepted by their fellows. And this is where it gets a little bit brutal. Yeah, you made a face, and I had a feeling I didn't like it, but so if uh potential leaders are deemed unsatisfactory, and this is by whatever standards that demon rays have or use, uh, they are set upon by the group and slain before they have any chance to force themselves into positions of influence and power.

SPEAKER_04 35:44

Okay. They probably eat each other, don't they? They probably eat each other.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

I'm sure they eat each other, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:49

Oh, it didn't say specifically.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

It didn't specifically say, but I just kind of assumed that.

SPEAKER_04 35:53

Oh, okay. So cannibalism implied, but not confirmed. Correct. In my in my onion. Cannibalism implied. Content warning cannibalism implied. Oh, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

And uh this process is actually credited Pluses? Yes, their uh, you know, potential leader process, choosing process.

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Plus, you know? That was a word choice. Imagine if never mind.

SPEAKER_04 36:23

I can't I can't relate this to human behavior.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Carry it on. Imagine if you imagine if you had a potential leader or even a leader, and you all got together and he might have been your best friend. I don't know. And you're like, you know what? This guy sucks. Let's all gang up on him in the Senate and stab him to death. Oh wait.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Um, but yes, this reason is credited as to being one of the reasons why they're also not able to like rise to a position of absolute domination because they're kind of killing each other? Yeah, they're just like calling their pack almost every time if one is deemed unworthy for whatever fucking reason. But it also says this process also helps to ensure unity of purpose that binds the member of a colony together.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

Unity of purpose, my ass!

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

I mean, if you're all unified and and hating Brad, yeah, fuck you, Brad. Fuck you, Julius.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

Hmm. So the vampire demon rays are the most feared by other creatures. And this is due to the fact that, you know, they bite you and they take your life force. Well, that's not. I would be a bit frightened of that too. Just a wee bit. And then it says that it is uh very rare that one of the vampire types becomes like a leader or lieutenants of a colony. So they can be like war generals, I guess would be the best way, but they rarely become lieutenants or higher up. That's interesting. But when this does happen, they are said to be the most dangerous undersea denizens of their size. Because now they have this absolute control over this colony.

SPEAKER_04 38:21

And they're also scary vampire things. And they're also scary vampire things.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Yep. Uh the demon rays in general are just fiercely independent and cannot really be subdued. They will either fight to the death, or you have to stun them or immobilize them in order to get them to leave you alone, basically. So it's all or nothing.

SPEAKER_04 38:41

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

And they are fearless, but they are not reckless or imprudent. So they don't fear anything, but they're at least like kind of smart about it.

SPEAKER_04 38:49

Yeah, they're not just like indiscriminately like we're gonna go and just slaughter everything.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

Yep. Uh they're prone to collect treasures of all sorts. Same. Um part of this is in hopes that they can use the treasures to bargain with, but the other part is in hopes to find magic items.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

Same.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Yes. They can use magic items. Nice. Turns out. Uh some of them have been seen wearing rings on their tails, some of them wielding rods, stabs, or anything of that sort clenched in their jaws. Pretty much anything that does not require hands, they can use. Okay. And if they happen upon a magic item that they cannot use, they will usually still take it and hide it away so that other creatures can't get to it. That's smart. Yeah. Yeah. They do have some instances of cooperating with other aquatic creatures for a mutual gain. And they have been known to hire or train creatures such as sea lions to work for them. And apparently they are actually cousins to the shark.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Which cut me off guard, I guess. Yeah, because manta rays are. But yeah, I don't know that much about like actual manta rays, so I was like, that's kind of weird to me.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

Man, you lord over the manta rays and you don't know that much about them? I lord over the demon rays, excuse you. No, you lord over the room. You're also lord over Earth Manta rays. I have been to zoos with you. You've seen it in action. I saw a gigantic sea flap flap jump out at you from the ocean! And yet you don't know how they fuck or that they're related to sharks?

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Correct. Hey, I didn't ask for this. It just happened. Valid. Um, and this was just kind of cool that at the end of it it mentions that uh Razumith of Boulder's Gate and a Lutham, a Latham, whatever. Sure. Of the Moonshea Isles continue research on the demon race. Hmm. So here are some of just the side notes that it had. Uh when it comes to the magic items, they can use, like I said, any item that is not specifically like prohibited to needing hands. Right. And they can also use ones that are not prohibited to just clerics. Like they can use any magic item as long as it can be worn or operated without hands.

SPEAKER_04 41:18

So really what you're saying is what's actually the only thing stopping them is not the Tritons or the Myrrh people or themselves like calling their own population. It's the fact that they don't have a postal club.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

They can't catch these hands.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

Correct. Um, they will generally find some that have been modified to be used by like mental commands rather than audible ones. Right. But if they find one that they can use that needs audible, they can usually just modify it to be used by mental commands. Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

And they can probably find a discount code for that too. Because you know everybody's got those stupid, stupid.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Like, I don't know if this is obvious or not. I felt it was, but they don't need like components to cast their spells.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Fair, or I'm guess like cinematic components.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yeah. Yeah, they really just they don't need it. So they just think. And kind of like what Lewin said earlier, they don't have bones. They are just like connected pieces of cartilage.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

So this is actually one reason why they can't be animated like a human skeleton. Oh so they become they become zombies instead of like an animated, like undead skeleton, basically.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

So bones is where the line is drawn. I see.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

If you've never seen a dehydrated manta ray, you need to look it up. It's terrifying. It is terrifying.

SPEAKER_04 42:42

I don't want to look at a dehydrated manta ray. I feel like it will make me sad.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Oh no. Now the uh zombie demon rays don't have access to their clerical powers anymore, and they can't employ magic items either. They're just zombies that pretty much do as they're told. Luke war bodies. Yeah. Yeah. And, like I said, they are not true vampires. Because they're missing out on pretty much every other trait of a vampire, except for the fact that they can regenerate and sap the life force. Every other thing a vampire has, they do not.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

I mean, I guess it's convenient that sunlight and running water aren't an issue. Well, I guess sunlight even for them probably wouldn't be the biggest deal because they're so far. Well, I guess they don't necessarily live super far down in the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

No, but it also does say that they live in shallow waters too, so Yeah. And this is what I thought is really cool. So in order to employ a touch spell, their normal bite attack has to succeed for the spell to take effect. But if the bite misses, the use of the spell is not actually consumed, but instead it is stored until a bite succeeds. Ooh. So they can like if they miss you the first time, and then they like turn around and attack someone else their next time. Round and they hit, their spell will be used on that. They can't control when it's used, but they can control when they want to cast it.

SPEAKER_04 44:07

Okay. Oh okay. So they basically they won't waste it.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Yeah, their spells are always considered like ready or prepared. Right. So if they're using a touch spell and it misses, cool. And then they hit you again the next time, then the spell takes effect. So they never really like lose their spells unless they die. And as far as their life cycle goes, it's still very poorly understood, but summarized basically as six months after mating is when a female gives birth to a single young. When the young are born, they have full control over their like physical faculties. They don't have the ability to use their cleric spells yet. That comes later on when they reach adulthood, which apparently takes one to three months after birth. And the growth of the one to three months really just depends on like how much food is available to them.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

Right. Also, fun fact uh man uh manta ray babies are called pups.

SPEAKER_01 45:04

Yes, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Yes, I did know that. Demon ray pups. Demon pups, demon pups. No, that's something else. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Hmm. Yeah, those are hellhounds. Uh uh yes. So that's all from the ecology article. Uh I love ecology. I wanted to take the ecology at the beginning because I just wanted to? Yeah, I love ecology articles. So now we kind of just jump through the normal hoops of following them through the different editions to see what has changed. But before that, let's take our break so I can get some water and not look at dehydrated manta rays again.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

Or be dehydrated manta rays. Hydrate or digrate, guys.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Hello everyone. Thank you so much for listening to this episode on the Demon Rays.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

Exhibit.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Exhibits a chittle.

SPEAKER_04 45:55

Exhibits a chittle. Yeah, exactly. That for the Exact a Chittle.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Uh we're just gonna do our quick little ad break and then we'll get back to these weird ass demon ray things that are not demons. Either way. They are rays, though. They are rays. Um we do still have our affiliate partnership with Metallic Dice Games. They haven't dropped us yet. They might eventually, if we keep having these fucked up episodes.

SPEAKER_04 46:19

If we keep making jokes about them dropping us. But it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Uh but we do still have the affiliate uh partnership going with them. So if you want dice or dice accessories, any new pretty sharp dice.

SPEAKER_04 46:33

Exclusive dice sets you can only get from metallic dice games.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Exclusive dice.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Dice that you know a demon ray can't use because they can't hold it.

SPEAKER_01 46:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

They could probably kind of curl their little flap flap up and just kind of Or just like pick it up with their mouth and just toss it. Oh, that's cute. But then it would just kinda float away in the w I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Depends on if it's a metal dice or not.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

Oh yeah, those would sink, right? Those metals sink.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Yeah. But uh, if you need any of those, go to metallicdicegames.com and on checkout, just use the code dungeonpedia and you will just get 10% off your entire order.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

On the subject of supporting us and financially, that sort of thing, we do still have our Patreon if you'd like to support us more directly. And that's just Dungeonpedia. We have our our um no outlines on there. We have nothing else out there on there currently, though we do have some things in the works. If you have any advice for that, by the way, or suggestions. Yeah, we would appreciate them. And you can actually go ahead and tweet those at us or send us a message on our Instagram at Dungeonpedia. And there, we also post um notifications when we go live. We well go live when our episodes go live. We're not ever live. You don't want to hear us live. You don't, because this is heavily edited as is. We also post fun facts, nice pictures, all that shit. Yeah. If you want to send us a longer form message or just get in contact with us in a different avenue, we have our email at digimpedia.podcast at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_04 48:10

Uh you can subscribe to us on whatever platform you listen to, get notifications as soon as we post new episodes. And if those platforms allow you to leave a rating or review or both, we would really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yes, actually, speaking of that, I got curious and went and checked us out on the Apple Podcast site. Uh, we are at 4.9 stars with 12 ratings. So that's actually uh really nice. We didn't have that many ratings before. Well, last time I checked, but so uh thank you all who have done that. And if you haven't yet, please. Wait, that's 4.9 out of 5 stars, right? Yes. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

Now out of 10, we'll 4.9 out of 10.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

We suck.

SPEAKER_03 48:52

For clarification, I did know that, but thank you, Alexander Nakarata, who is a five out of five stars in my heart for our theme song, Blacksmith.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

And uh I think with that, let's get back to this honestly 10 out of 5 star topic. Demon flap-flops. Demon C pancake flop flops, vampire flap-flops.

SPEAKER_03 49:20

Alright, so we're back at the aquatic iHop, the International House of Ocean Pancake. I hoop.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

I hoop Yes.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

Also, I looked up, I looked up dehydrated manta rays, and I'm here to tell you don't do it. Don't do it. If you haven't done it yet, don't do it. It produced an emotion in me that I've never felt before, and I didn't like it.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

I told you, man, it's bad. It's not good. So uh going into the monster manual from second edition, uh, their numbers uh and their like appearing in the number of has been significantly reduced to just five to twelve in encounters, from ten to one hundred. And for whatever reason, they went from being clerics to priests. Alright. I'm not quite sure the reason for this, but that's a thing that happened.

SPEAKER_04 50:13

I mean, to be fair, I'm not a hundred percent on the differences between those two things in second edition, so yeah, I mean, same.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

We should probably cover that at some point. Yeah. But, um, so this is where it gets a little bit worse because a community of these uh demon rays usually have about 20 to 200 humanoid slaves.

SPEAKER_04 50:37

Oh yay! Slavery, our favorite topic.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:42

Um wait. Okay. Oh no, I'll I'll let you I'll I'll hold my questions.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

I'm sure that the question will be answered. I think I know what you're gonna say. Um the question will be answered. Answered. Answered. Jesus. So uh larger communities are sometimes built on the ocean floor rather than in a coral reef, mostly because a coral reef might not be able to house that large of a community. Fair. Uh the vampire stipes stipes, oh my god. The vampire stipends.

SPEAKER_03 51:12

The vampire stipends. At first we had the legal vampire loopholes, and now we have vampire stipends.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

We did it. The vampire types are basically still the same, except for instead of like being leaders, they are now often just guards to their leaders.

SPEAKER_04 51:30

Oh, okay, so they're like bodyguards.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Yeah, they kind of got demoted a little bit, but eh. They're still strong and horrifying. Um, but they also have a greater vampire variant now. Ooh. Which these are very rare, and the only way for a vampire to become a greater vampire is to be bitten by an existing greater vampire.

SPEAKER_04 51:57

Wait.

SPEAKER_01 51:58

So I don't know where the first one came from.

SPEAKER_04 52:01

Probably I don't know, Demogorgon blessed one of them or something like that. Like a particularly brutal and terrible. Yeah, particularly jacked and also brutal and terrible uh vampire variant. Yeah. That's probably what happened.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

These are the vampire types that act as the leaders and rulers to large cities.

SPEAKER_04 52:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

So you have like the greater vampire, and then their vampire bodyguards, and their assorted demon raid.

SPEAKER_04 52:33

Maybe weaker vampire varieties, or alternatively just regular ones.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Yeah. So uh we go to the cloak and dagger, which was a uh accessory written for the Forgotten Realms for second edition. And there was really only one interesting thing mentioned in here about these fucking weird ass demon rays, and that is the fact that there is a vampiric demon ray by the name of Vicanack. Vicinack. V Vicanak is what I'm going with. A Piccinick Basket. A Picanic Basket? Yes. Um that acts as a member of a vampire court to Orlock II, who is the Night King of Westgate. I don't know any more about him. I didn't like want to delve down into that. He's the cousin of the Knight King of Westeros. Oh. Jesus. Um but yeah. Uh it mentions that there was another god, apparently, that came after Demogorgon that the Rays started worshiping, known as Exildrin? Yeah. That sounds like a name. Exildrin the Great Rey.

SPEAKER_03 53:46

I wonder why they worship him.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Right?

SPEAKER_03 53:49

I I don't know. Do you have any insight?

SPEAKER_01 53:51

I I I don't, actually.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

I probably could have looked him up, but also can you imagine um like being just like a regular ass humanoid vampire in this vampiric court of Orlock II, and you just like show up to your little vampire party to like, I don't know, drink some blood. Drink the blood of some virgins or something. And then he just has like a pool in his room. And this like this like C flap just pokes his head up from the pool and is like, hey, what's up? Tiny little things. Yeah, he's like, hey, what's up? And you know, you're just like, oh yeah, you know, just the usual uh sleeping during the day, uh virgin blood, you know? What about you? Slaughtering livestock. Yeah, or what about you? Oh, same, just in the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Just chilling.

SPEAKER_04 54:45

Terrorizing some of them sea elves. Oh yeah, those fucking sea elves can't stand them. They're delicious, though.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

So um tried sun elf.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

I I did actually decide to always come out overdone. Decide to look it up uh very quickly.

SPEAKER_04 55:02

I stole that joke from Sweeney Todd, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Um, so the history with this exildrin exilindrin, whatever. That's some syllables that weren't there before. Yeah. Um apparently comes from something called the Revelation of the Demon Rae, which followed the Great Flood.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Wait. Uh how did Jesus get here?

SPEAKER_03 55:29

Wait, no. That was a Jesus. Well, okay. No, but you understand what I'm referencing. What's this nun? The guy with the Moses? No. No, the Ark. Oh, Noah. Noah, that one. Hey, I love that. My name is T. I was I was raised Southern Baptist.

SPEAKER_04 55:49

You can't tell, but so was I.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Wow, guys. Listen, it's funny that you uh went that route because this was apparently a century-long religious war that was fought between the I guess the plural for them is Ixen, the demon race. Alright. And its purpose was deciding which power to venerate, because apparently, initially, at least in this time, they worshipped Dagon, Panzerial, and Demogorgon. But after the war, um Ixildrin had firmly established its presence as the patron deity.

SPEAKER_04 56:27

Huh. That's interesting because I feel like of all of those, like Dagon. Well, no, like I feel like I don't know this uh Alexandron person from Jack. Well, I guess they're not a person, they're a ray, but whatever. Like, where else I feel like I feel like you would probably Demogorgon's probably significantly more powerful.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

Well, see, is Demogorgon more powerful, but also is he too busy to take to like do shit for this. That is true.

SPEAKER_01 56:56

That is true, because that was that was a lot of uh creatures worshiped Demogorgon, so that's true.

SPEAKER_04 57:02

He's gotta give his he's gotta give his time and cleric powers to a lot of different people. So also that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Uh just live-ish during the recording. I just found out where the first greater vampires came from.

SPEAKER_03 57:15

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Two of them were transformed by an avatar of Exildrin into Greater Vampires.

SPEAKER_04 57:23

Okay, so close, not Demogorgon, but close. Very close. I I figured it out.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

So hey, you learn new things. I did it. But uh Vicanak is actually a rogue vampire ray because they turned back to worshipping Demogorgon. Oh so that's apparently how he wound up on the vampire court. Jesus Christ. Uh so from third edition, uh, they're in Monster Manual 2, and this is where they appear now as having the aberration type instead of just like being a they worship demons. Right. The sea creature that worships demons. Um, so I don't quite get this like initially. And it says this mentions uh that they treat their homes like they do their enemies. Oh shit. So what? Initially, I was like, I don't even understand what the fuck this means.

SPEAKER_04 58:19

I think I understand what that means, but that's fucking brutal.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

And basically, what it means is they will strip clean all of the plant and animal life of their home, and then they just kind of move on to a new reef. Oh, pretty much just destroy their home like they do their enemies.

SPEAKER_04 58:38

Okay, I see.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:40

Alright, okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

And uh here might be the question to your answer earlier. Okay. Anything that can survive underwater can be found within their reef mazes as slaves. This includes Nixies, gargoyles, and even humans or elves that are wearing magic items that allow them to breathe underwater.

unknown 58:59

Ah.

SPEAKER_03 59:00

So they're not picky.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

They're not picky. As long as they can survive underwater. Like if you're an adventuring group and you have like the magic ring or something that makes you breathe underwater and they capture you, you're just gonna be a slave.

SPEAKER_04 59:13

Well, okay, what what purpose do they have for keeping slaves if they just go around and essentially destroy an entire environment and then move on?

SPEAKER_01 59:25

Oh, well, that's why, because they use the slaves to do all the digging and everything of the reefs.

SPEAKER_04 59:30

Oh, okay. Because my thought was like, if they don't have them like for labor to like say create structures, or if they don't use them in the capacity of like, say, like a slave army or something, if you will, then like what do they have them for except to like torture, probably. They probably also do that.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

They probably also do that, but they use them for all the heavy lifting and creating the mazes and everything in the reef.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

Oh, okay. I see.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

Um so this is the first time that it mentions uh what's in their mouth.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

Uh-huh. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Um their mouths are filled with these uh triangular razor sharp teeth, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:08

Okay. That alright. Alright. The phrasing was a little concerning, but Yeah, yeah, I kind of meant for it to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:16

What'd that mouth do though? It it destroys. It got teeth. It chomp, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

So under like the treasure section of their entry, it states, quote, no coins, no goods, double items, wearable items only.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

Alright. Yep, that's exactly just like on my Animal Crossing request log. Perfect, it makes perfect sense. Yep. If you come to my island, that's what it says.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

I mean, it kind of does make sense for them because they only care about items that they can wear because if they're magical, they keep them, and if not, they just trade them off.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:56

Right. I mean fair.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

So they just don't care about coins or any other goods, apparently. Um, they are back to being clerics, but now it just says that they generally serve any chaotic deity rather than just Demigorgon, which I'm going to assume is following that whole century-long religious war thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:15

So you could potentially find different communities that venerate different chaotic deities. Right. Okay, cool. It said chaotic though?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Yeah, any chaotic deity.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:25

Interesting. They are chaotic evil, so well, I'm just saying, well well, I'll also I I can't speak for this because I didn't do the research on this and I am not looking at the stab lock for their but I would bet money, I would bet all the money that I would find on a Demon Ray body, which is none, that it probably says usually chaotic evil, because that tends to be how third edition does things. Usually chaotic evil. Because basically what I'm imagining is them is a community of them that venerate like a chaotic good deity because I want them to be nice C flap flaps. I mean, yeah. I want them to be friendly C Flap Flaps.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

That's a fair point.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:04

Because it just says chaotic. Yeah. They could worship they could they could worship Corellin for all we know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

That's a fair point. It actually does not specify chaotic evil, it just says any chaotic.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:14

So ideas for your ideas for your nice, nice C flap flaps. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

So jumping to fourth edition.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:22

Oh boy!

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

Yeah, here's the fun part. Oh boy! So they're they don't actually appear in any of the monster manuals, but instead they appear in the Demonomicon.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:33

Okay, you know what? Fair enough. The Demonomicon Fox. Wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

But Yeah. So first of all, they are Oh wait. They're uh they are now back to being faithful servants of Demigorgon.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:45

Okay. Alright, fair.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

Now they have a hunger for mortal flesh that is never satisfied. Same. No. Uh it says mortal flesh because now they are apparently demons. Alright. Not aberrations or been turned to demons. Alright.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:03

I don't understand why, but there's fucking what's there's three whole fourth edition monster manuals, and they have nothing in them. Because it feels like we keep s okay, I mean, to be fair, you could pull probably a bunch of instances where we do talk about things that are in the fourth edition monster manuals, but it feels like a lot, a lot of the time we're like, they're not in core fourth edition, they're in this supplement or this whatever. No problem. So there's three of those fucking books, and as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing in them.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

Yeah. And uh here's a direct quote from uh what it says under their lore section. There is no book.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:39

Is it is it is this is this quote the entire lore section?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:42

Oh!

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

This is their entire lore section. I was exaggerating. Legend has it that Demogorgon created the Manta Rays when he was a primordial. The ray's loyal descendants followed him into the abyss and were corrupted and became the fiendish rays called the how would you pronounce that again?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:01

Exit the the Exitle.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

Exitle. Yeah. And that literally. Ixol. That is it. That is all the lore we get.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:13

Alright, guys, great episode. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Thanks so much for watching. Their vampire variant is gone in fourth edition.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

No. Why would you take like one of the cool things about them?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:24

And uh instead, they have the demon rays and the priest.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Um I mean, okay, I don't alright, okay. I mean, the Demon Rays stat blocks didn't really have any interesting changes or anything to it, so I just kind of skipped over it. Okay. Um, the priests, however, have an aura, because you know 4th edition loves their aura.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:48

Called Demigorgon's Blessing. Okay. Which gives allies within range a plus five bonus to damage rolls.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:56

Okay, that sounds pretty dangerous, but it it sounds cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

Right? And uh, oh right. So did I say that the vampire variant was gone? Yes. I'm sorry. Uh what I really meant was it's apparently just crammed in there with the fucking priest variant.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

Okay. Why?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Because the priests have a vampiric fangs ability that does no damage, but if it hits the target, they lose a healing surge and are weakened until the end of its next turn. Okay. There is no regeneration, no nothing else. It's just they sap the healing surge and they're weakened.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:32

I'm retiring.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:34

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

Okay, you know, I honestly I wouldn't even take Umbrage with it's like they took the vampire variant and maybe changed it around, and they was so they would refer to the variant as priests, and it may might be like this is the role they fill in their society. Right. But no, of course they didn't do that. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

No, they just crammed it in there. They're like, Oh shit, we forgot about the vampire variant. Just add it to the priest.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:56

Hey, you know what? That's more than they do for some things. In fourth edition, because they're like, oh shit, we forgot like one of the really cool things about these guys. Let's put a little something about it in there as opposed to a lot of other ones where they just are like suck to suck. Yeah, they're just like, whatever. This is just a basic fucking boring ass monster now, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:16

But that's that's that's it that comes out of fourth edition for them. Okay, fair enough. And on unfortunately, kind of in the same vein as fourth edition, they're not in the like core monster manual for fifth edition, but instead they are in the adventure out of the abyss.

unknown 1:06:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:34

Okay. I mean, alright, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

I don't know why they leave them out of the monster manual, but I mean, if they're using them just for a specific adventure, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:42

Fifth edition is like we have to remember, Fifth Edition is still expanding its repertoire.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

So it could be updated later to where they're in like Monster Manual 2 or something.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

Yeah, and I mean, and I I mean there in any way, I'm not getting I can't get into it. I can't get into it right now. There are cool things that aren't necessarily just in the monster manual, and I feel like there are certain things that are maybe on a I feel like on a certain on a certain level where it's not like egregiously offensive for them to not be in the monster manual.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:10

I mean, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:11

The first monster manual, if that makes sense. Yeah, the thing that it I think we have to remember is that like And also that fifth edition, like you said, is still I didn't mean to cut you off.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:21

Oh no, you're you're fine. Um the thing I feel like that we have to remember with the monster manuals is that the more information we add, the more they have to kind of decide what goes into the the core.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Yeah, that's true. And they only have the one monster manual for fifth edition, so again, maybe they'll add it later. Yeah, who knows? But for now, they're just currently in Out of the Abyss. Um, they are back to being just aberrations and fifth edition. In my opinion. Um, they stay chaotic evil. Cool. Good. Um, the one of the big differences is like before they were all considered to be roughly the same size. Whereas now, like just a normal demon ray are considered to be small.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:02

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

That have four d6 plus four hit points. Um, the small ones, normal ones, whatever you want to call them, have a uh bite uh action. Uh their attack is just a bite. Gotcha. And as a reaction, they have something called the barbed tail. Which is the first time this has been in anything having to do with their tail. Other than that.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:29

I like that. Other, yeah, other than where it was like a conduit for their um their like telepathy. Yeah, their touch telepathy.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

Yeah. And this is basically that when a creature provokes an attack of opportunity, the demon ray can use its barbed tail as an attack instead of its bite. The barbed tail just does a bit more damage in its bite, but it kind of makes sense given that it's a mantor ray, basically.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:54

So you might say that its barb hurts more than its bite. Oh my god. Wow. Boo. No, no, you boo me all you want. I'm right.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

I have to boo you.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:06

Yeah, Travis, uh, I bet you really didn't see that one coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

Jesus Christ. Okay. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:18

This is your life.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:19

This is my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:20

Hey, listen, I've been holding myself back from making a whole ton of stupid ocean puns this entire episode, so grant me this. Fair.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

So they do have the vampire variant back in now. Yay! And the vampires are the ones that are considered to be medium aberrations with 8 d8 plus 8 hit points. I don't know why that's funny to me. And they have the regeneration ability back. Nice. Good, good vampire shit. To where they gain 10 hit points at the start of their turn. It also states that they only die if they start their turn with zero HP. Oh so I guess like technically, if you were to kill one and then like leave and something comes along and like at least heals it just enough, they'll just come back to life.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:13

Now, I would imagine I'm not a DM. I would say that that's within like maybe like I mean, because if you go by rounds, then that would be mean that someone would have to come in within six seconds.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:24

Right. But if you It's a rare occasion for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:28

If you well, see, I the way I interpreted that is that you have to like overkill it. Yeah. Pretty much. So that essentially they have 8 d8 plus 18 hit points. Like you have to get it to at least negative 10.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:43

Probably.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:44

But it also I don't know if it could still regenerate itself hypothetically while it's unconscious. But to me, it stands to reason that it could. Yeah. I mean, I will say objectively, not the most complicated vampire to kill.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:56

No. No. But let's be real with ourselves. There are some real difficult vampires to kill. There are some real difficult vampires.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:05

Um Straud, Mr. Mr. Zarovich.

unknown 1:11:08

Dick.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

So they do have the uh vampiric bite as their action, which in terms of like initial damage, it's just like a normal what was it, like 1d6 or 1d8, something like that. Yeah. But um after that, it requires a constitution saving throw, which on a failed save, the creature's maximum HP is reduced by an amount equal to the damage taken. Don't like that. And the Demon Ray regains HP equal to the amount that they deal.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:40

I'm assuming that's temporary.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

Um, it is temporary up until you take a long rest. Yeah, that's what I imagine. And obviously, if your maximum HP is reduced to zero, you die. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:51

Right, yeah, which you have no health, which is why I don't like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:55

But um, they do have the barbed uh barbed tail reaction as well. So they're able to do that. And they also now have a cleric variant back, but this one is kind of in like one of uh the like smaller boxes that basically is just saying that it's got the normal stats of like a normal or vampire variant with the added feature of spellcasting.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:19

Okay. Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:20

So they don't have their own stat block for the cleric variant, it's just their stat block is that a normal one plus spell casting. Cleric spellcasting. Yeah. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:31

But um yeah, that is all I got for your um Exitsa Chittles.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:38

You know, I that sounded right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:40

Exitsachittle. Let's go with that. Yeah, I hope um everyone enjoyed this episode of these weird vampire flap flops. See flop. See vampire boys. Again, thank you, Tyler Gordon, for suggesting the episode. While the name is hard as shit to pronounce, it is a fun subject to research.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:59

So Yeah, I was intrigued by them when I saw them pop up in the Sahouagan episode. But it was literally just like this. Oh my god, there's vampire manta rays. Oh god, I gotta keep going, or else I'm gonna fall down a rabbit hole down. It happens. Sometimes it do be that way. I really do.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:17

Um, don't forget, follow us on all of our various social media platforms, spread the word to your friends.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:24

Your friends who like manta rays. Your friends who like vampires, your friends who like Iop.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:28

ihoop.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:30

Your friends who like uh this was a suggested episode, as we mentioned. If you have anything to suggest to us or want to request an episode, you can email us at dungeonpedia.podcast. Sorry. I'm gonna just try to email again. Dungeonpedia.podcast at gmail.com. Yeah, yeah. I mean you can also tweet us any of your episode suggestions.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:52

Yeah. That works too. Okay, I'm sorry. I literally have to depart the curtain. We had trouble saying that, which is why we're laughing. And I just I'm gonna just say it because I don't think we're gonna get a clean take of it. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:04

Nope.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:05

No, that's fair. That's fair. Okay, all right. We need to be done.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:07

Yes. So thank you all once again for listening, and uh, we will catch you next week right here on Dungeon Pedia.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:15

Do you think they ever take that five stack and then put another five stack on top of them? And have a 10 stacker? Yeah. Or or do we dare to dream a 15 stacker of sea pancakes? I let them see that. Alright, let's get on our way to IHOC guys. I hope.